High Definition with Elphel model 333 camera

Sebastian Pichelhofer · April 17th, 2009, 07:59 AM

Batteries voltage drop might be influenced by the current drawn from the cell at the time of measurement so I am afraid I do not have enough knowledge about this to build a safe battery pack.

But I think this monitoring device (Arduino or any other microcontroller) should be integrated in the battery pack. Otherwise it could result in the battery pack catching fire and destroying the camera or worse if the operator selected the wrong battery type and only the camera is monitoring the cells.

As far as I know the next camera CPU will be based on a very similar chip to the beagleboard: A Texas Instruments Davinci .... ARM CPU with video coprocessor.

Oscar Spierenburg · April 17th, 2009, 06:59 PM

Sebastian/Philippe,

Alexandre mailed me an interesting link to an Arduino alternative (and possibly better):
Teensy USB Development Board (teensy++)
What do you think? Anyone here has experience with this?
Oscar

Sebastian Pichelhofer · April 21st, 2009, 03:23 AM

Teensy looks great:
-) smaller than Arduino
-) more IO pins than Arduino, better specs
-) Development Environment seems to be compatible with Arduino
-) cheaper than Arduino

Only con I see so far:
-) Cable on Mini USB jack detaches easier than the normal sized USB jack in the field

Small update on the Dictator:
-) I totally forgot 2 things: the Rec button and the on/off switch :)

Since the Teensy++ has 46 IO pins we could easily add more pushbuttons (they are very cheap as well). What other settings would you like to be able to change with a pushbutton?

Here are some images of the available pushbuttons of the competitors:
http://www.dvuser.co.uk/images/img/n...-back-1920.jpg
http://www.vanbrandwijk.eu/uploads/image/ex3.jpg
http://www.panavision.co.nz/images/_large/aghvx200.jpg
http://www.digitalcamcordernews.com/...-hvr-s270u.jpg
http://www.hd-tv.nl/images/news/282.jpg

Oscar Spierenburg · April 21st, 2009, 10:19 AM

Looks good. Would this be possible to build in some kind of project box (with pre-made holes for knobs, LCD and buttons)? This way you could make a DIY guide for people who want to make it themselves and we don;t need custom manufacturing. I'm searching, but didn't find anything yet.

EDIT:

Maybe we could look for things like this:
Product Photos
Product Photos

Here is a cheap battery+charger I came across:
Laptop Nimh Universal External Battery, 12V 3500mAh + Wall Charger for IBM Sony NEC etc (P1000) - CH-1540-UNC03

Oscar Spierenburg · April 21st, 2009, 03:34 PM

I found a very interesting company that makes custom designed front panels (with there own software) . So a simple project box and a custom front panel would make a perfect Dictator enclosure.
I did a quick test with the software (using Sebastian's design as reference): A black aluminum panel (100x60mm) would be $ 18.- (10% discount at 10 items, 20% for 20 etc.)

Home*- Front Panel Express, LLC > Front Panel Service for North America

Sebastian Pichelhofer · April 22nd, 2009, 01:07 AM

Very cool!

For prototyping any CNC mill should be able to do the job. But 18$ looks like a very good offer (does it even incude printing/engraving on the panel) and the company you found could in general be very interesting for our needs.

Matteo Pozzi · April 22nd, 2009, 01:40 AM

very cool oscar the link
here is a link to an arm for the tablet or lcd
that is strong and good looking

Holding System By NOGA

pdf sheet

Very useful the dictator concept
I've not understand what does the two rotary encoders
or better, does we need 2 rotary and a 2axis joystic?

maybe with the next revision of the elphel we have some more processor power to do video output so a simple LCD + dictator could do the job

Oscar Spierenburg · April 25th, 2009, 02:38 PM

Interesting product Matteo.

Does anyone know if a 6mm c-mount intended for 2/3" sensors has the same FOV as a 6mm c-mount lens intended for a 1/3" sensor? I mean: is it calculated for c-mount in general or for the sensor size?
Or is it just that you can't fill the whole 2/3" sensor area with a lens that was intended for a 1/3" sensor?
If not, what is the multiplier factor?

Philippe Jadin · April 25th, 2009, 03:05 PM

Oscar,

I read (forgot where) that it depends on the lens. Some have enough coverage for bigger sensors, some don't... It seems you have to test. Well, if you order online, it's another problem :-/

Matteo Pozzi · April 26th, 2009, 04:57 AM

exaclty as a aps-c for actual reflex and a 35mm lens
as you said Oscar "you can't fill the whole 2/3" sensor area with a lens that was intended for a 1/3" sensor"
take care that some industrial lens are for example 3mega pixel capable but only for the sensor size they are designed for
a 3mpix camera for 2/3" can resolve about 1mpix on a 1/3" sensor

for size and some info about thake that link
Optical Characteristics of Video Lenses

and look at the tamron catalog for c-mount lens
Tamron CCTV and Photographic Lenses for Factory Automation, Machine Vision & Security
they have monofocal lens that have a minimum object distance of about 10cm
(like fujinon one but fuji is more expansive) so we can use adapter without achromat lens to reduce that distance

Thomas Kumlehn · April 28th, 2009, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscar Spier

I found a very interesting company that makes custom designed front panels (with there own software) . So a simple project box and a custom front panel would make a perfect Dictator enclosure.
I did a quick test with the software (using Sebastian's design as reference): A black aluminum panel (100x60mm) would be $ 18.- (10% discount at 10 items, 20% for 20 etc.)

Home*- Front Panel Express, LLC > Front Panel Service for North America

If you want avoid intl. shipping, the headquater of Home*- www.schaeffer-ag.de - Frontplatte, Front Panel, Face Avant, Frontplatten Designer are in Berlin/Germany, offering the same service in EUR. And they also offer case kits with alu profiles and plates.

PIXEL PARTNER (R)
Thomas Kumlehn

Oscar Spierenburg · May 1st, 2009, 11:30 AM

Hi everyone.

I'm working on the rods support design again. How about collecting all
ideas for ready-made (existing) parts?
By this I mean: hand-grips, rods, microphone holders, knobs, electric
wiring solutions etc..
There should be numerous cheap parts around to make almost the whole
Rods support and mount all accessories.

Lets first bring together ideas and put it in an open google-document
later on.

So far I noted:
hand-grip:
AF10926 Barska Accu-Grip Handheld Binocular Support System, Pistol Grip with 1/4-20 Male Thread, Black Plastic.
universal holding arm(Matteo):
Holding System By NOGA
Ready to use battery system(Polto):
DigiPower

The first thing I'm looking for for the design is a universal laptop
or monitor holder. One that should be adjustable to hold any small
type of laptop/tabletPC/7"monitor. Something that fits this design
Image:Perspective2.jpg - ElphelWiki .. so
it doesn't need to have an arm.

All ideas are welcome!

Sebastian Pichelhofer · May 4th, 2009, 10:32 AM

Slightly updated Dictator concept.

The whole interface can be locked with a sliding switch and 2 sliding switches can lock each rotary encoder individually.

About the parts:

How does this NOGA arm system compare to a traditional magic arm? Price, weight, ease of use, ....

The Handgrip looks good and cheap. For later revisions we might think about our own design with some buttons to start/stop recording for example.

Matteo Pozzi · May 5th, 2009, 07:23 AM

About NOGA arm:

HoldIT - DG Holder 3/8" - 1/4" +Nut. - DG11043

I've contacted an italian distributor (by phone) and they told me that
the price for the DG11043 is 80euro (support for 4kg)
and for MG11043 is 95 euro (support for 8kg)

but these are for cinematography purpose
I think that the same result could be achieved with the arms in the first noga link I've post
that, as distributoris said, are cheaper.

Oscar Spierenburg · May 5th, 2009, 02:26 PM

We should also be looking for something like this: RAM-234-6 Tough Tray II because the NOGA arm can not mount a laptop or tablet PC.
This is the only laptop "clamp" I could find. Does anyone know of other/cheaper ones?

April 21st, 2009, 03:23 AM	#1083
Sebastian Pichelhofer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 112	Teensy looks great: -) smaller than Arduino -) more IO pins than Arduino, better specs -) Development Environment seems to be compatible with Arduino -) cheaper than Arduino Only con I see so far: -) Cable on Mini USB jack detaches easier than the normal sized USB jack in the field Small update on the Dictator: -) I totally forgot 2 things: the Rec button and the on/off switch :) Since the Teensy++ has 46 IO pins we could easily add more pushbuttons (they are very cheap as well). What other settings would you like to be able to change with a pushbutton? Here are some images of the available pushbuttons of the competitors: http://www.dvuser.co.uk/images/img/n...-back-1920.jpg http://www.vanbrandwijk.eu/uploads/image/ex3.jpg http://www.panavision.co.nz/images/_large/aghvx200.jpg http://www.digitalcamcordernews.com/...-hvr-s270u.jpg http://www.hd-tv.nl/images/news/282.jpg Attached Thumbnails

April 21st, 2009, 10:19 AM	#1084
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Looks good. Would this be possible to build in some kind of project box (with pre-made holes for knobs, LCD and buttons)? This way you could make a DIY guide for people who want to make it themselves and we don;t need custom manufacturing. I'm searching, but didn't find anything yet. EDIT: Maybe we could look for things like this: Product Photos Product Photos Here is a cheap battery+charger I came across: Laptop Nimh Universal External Battery, 12V 3500mAh + Wall Charger for IBM Sony NEC etc (P1000) - CH-1540-UNC03 Last edited by Oscar Spierenburg; April 21st, 2009 at 01:33 PM.

April 21st, 2009, 03:34 PM	#1085
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Very interesting link! I found a very interesting company that makes custom designed front panels (with there own software) . So a simple project box and a custom front panel would make a perfect Dictator enclosure. I did a quick test with the software (using Sebastian's design as reference): A black aluminum panel (100x60mm) would be $ 18.- (10% discount at 10 items, 20% for 20 etc.) Home*- Front Panel Express, LLC > Front Panel Service for North America

April 22nd, 2009, 01:40 AM	#1087
Matteo Pozzi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 169	very cool oscar the link here is a link to an arm for the tablet or lcd that is strong and good looking Holding System By NOGA pdf sheet Very useful the dictator concept I've not understand what does the two rotary encoders or better, does we need 2 rotary and a 2axis joystic? maybe with the next revision of the elphel we have some more processor power to do video output so a simple LCD + dictator could do the job Last edited by Matteo Pozzi; April 22nd, 2009 at 03:08 AM. Reason: added info

May 1st, 2009, 11:30 AM	#1092
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Ready-made part list Hi everyone. I'm working on the rods support design again. How about collecting all ideas for ready-made (existing) parts? By this I mean: hand-grips, rods, microphone holders, knobs, electric wiring solutions etc.. There should be numerous cheap parts around to make almost the whole Rods support and mount all accessories. Lets first bring together ideas and put it in an open google-document later on. So far I noted: hand-grip: AF10926 Barska Accu-Grip Handheld Binocular Support System, Pistol Grip with 1/4-20 Male Thread, Black Plastic. universal holding arm(Matteo): Holding System By NOGA Ready to use battery system(Polto): DigiPower The first thing I'm looking for for the design is a universal laptop or monitor holder. One that should be adjustable to hold any small type of laptop/tabletPC/7"monitor. Something that fits this design Image:Perspective2.jpg - ElphelWiki .. so it doesn't need to have an arm. All ideas are welcome!

April 17th, 2009, 07:59 AM	#1081
Sebastian Pichelhofer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 112	Batteries voltage drop might be influenced by the current drawn from the cell at the time of measurement so I am afraid I do not have enough knowledge about this to build a safe battery pack. But I think this monitoring device (Arduino or any other microcontroller) should be integrated in the battery pack. Otherwise it could result in the battery pack catching fire and destroying the camera or worse if the operator selected the wrong battery type and only the camera is monitoring the cells. As far as I know the next camera CPU will be based on a very similar chip to the beagleboard: A Texas Instruments Davinci .... ARM CPU with video coprocessor.

April 17th, 2009, 06:59 PM	#1082
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Sebastian/Philippe, Alexandre mailed me an interesting link to an Arduino alternative (and possibly better): Teensy USB Development Board (teensy++) What do you think? Anyone here has experience with this? Oscar

April 22nd, 2009, 01:07 AM	#1086
Sebastian Pichelhofer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 112	Very cool! For prototyping any CNC mill should be able to do the job. But 18$ looks like a very good offer (does it even incude printing/engraving on the panel) and the company you found could in general be very interesting for our needs.

April 25th, 2009, 02:38 PM	#1088
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Interesting product Matteo. Does anyone know if a 6mm c-mount intended for 2/3" sensors has the same FOV as a 6mm c-mount lens intended for a 1/3" sensor? I mean: is it calculated for c-mount in general or for the sensor size? Or is it just that you can't fill the whole 2/3" sensor area with a lens that was intended for a 1/3" sensor? If not, what is the multiplier factor?

April 25th, 2009, 03:05 PM	#1089
Philippe Jadin New Boot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Brussels, Belgium Posts: 9	Oscar, I read (forgot where) that it depends on the lens. Some have enough coverage for bigger sensors, some don't... It seems you have to test. Well, if you order online, it's another problem :-/

April 26th, 2009, 04:57 AM	#1090
Matteo Pozzi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 169	exaclty as a aps-c for actual reflex and a 35mm lens as you said Oscar "you can't fill the whole 2/3" sensor area with a lens that was intended for a 1/3" sensor" take care that some industrial lens are for example 3mega pixel capable but only for the sensor size they are designed for a 3mpix camera for 2/3" can resolve about 1mpix on a 1/3" sensor for size and some info about thake that link Optical Characteristics of Video Lenses and look at the tamron catalog for c-mount lens Tamron CCTV and Photographic Lenses for Factory Automation, Machine Vision & Security they have monofocal lens that have a minimum object distance of about 10cm (like fujinon one but fuji is more expansive) so we can use adapter without achromat lens to reduce that distance

May 4th, 2009, 10:32 AM	#1093
Sebastian Pichelhofer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 112	Slightly updated Dictator concept. The whole interface can be locked with a sliding switch and 2 sliding switches can lock each rotary encoder individually. About the parts: How does this NOGA arm system compare to a traditional magic arm? Price, weight, ease of use, .... The Handgrip looks good and cheap. For later revisions we might think about our own design with some buttons to start/stop recording for example. Attached Thumbnails

May 5th, 2009, 07:23 AM	#1094
Matteo Pozzi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 169	About NOGA arm: HoldIT - DG Holder 3/8" - 1/4" +Nut. - DG11043 I've contacted an italian distributor (by phone) and they told me that the price for the DG11043 is 80euro (support for 4kg) and for MG11043 is 95 euro (support for 8kg) but these are for cinematography purpose I think that the same result could be achieved with the arms in the first noga link I've post that, as distributoris said, are cheaper.

May 5th, 2009, 02:26 PM	#1095
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	We should also be looking for something like this: RAM-234-6 Tough Tray II because the NOGA arm can not mount a laptop or tablet PC. This is the only laptop "clamp" I could find. Does anyone know of other/cheaper ones?