High Definition with Elphel model 333 camera

Matteo Pozzi · March 25th, 2009, 04:58 AM

very cool maybe it is possible to add a mask on the top of the image with line of the safe area
silicon imaging gui is what I think is the best one
some ago I worked on this with flash ...but under linux flash is not a good idea elphel GUI-2
and I used big buttons because I tink that the way to go is the use of small screen 10" max

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/alternati...33-html-2.html

Oscar Spierenburg · March 26th, 2009, 04:24 PM

Sebastian,

I made a quick example of my idea about the interface.
If the live image would be auto-scalable (to the screen resolution or window size) then we can use tablet PCs with portrait/landscape modes. This would really make the final camera smaller.
But of course when the screen has rotated 90 deg, you'll end up with a small live preview and lots of empty space.
With that in mind it would be a good idea to make a frame below the interface with the HDD file browser. When you're in landscape mode, you need to scroll down to use the file browser of course.
In my example I've also made the buttons bigger. Those buttons should stay the same size in portrait mode, so they have to be able to rearrange in two rows.

Just some suggestions :-)

Sebastian Pichelhofer · March 27th, 2009, 07:55 AM

Good ideas!

I found out that mplayer can nicely be integrated into java so this would mean the whole application could be a single java applet.

The concept image I made already has the 1024x600 resolution of most netbook screens. But you are right the interface should adapt itself to the current screenresolution.

The main functionality of the filebrowser you mentioned would be to review recorded clips I assume.
So why not add a button to review the last recorded clip as well in the main interface.

I don't like the scrollbars, the filebrowser should be accessible with a normal button in the bottom menu I think.

We should start to look for an official name for the project:

I think we need a short project name and lengthier subtitle

Requirements for the project name:
*) short and descriptive
*) easy to remember
*) cool sounding
*) should allow us to reuse the name for sequell/sub projects

Requirements for the subtitle:
*) "open source"
*) "based or powered by Elphel"

Any suggestions welcome!

Btw: I created a google group for developing this camera. Just PM me if you want to participate and I will invite you.

Oscar Spierenburg · March 27th, 2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matteo Pozzi

\
some ago I worked on this with flash ...but under linux flash is not a good idea elphel GUI-2
and I used big buttons because I think that the way to go is the use of small screen 10" max

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/alternati...33-html-2.html

Matteo.. Of course I also haven't forgotten your input. Too bad the flash design doesn't work out. Java is a good alternative. BTW, did you test it with an online camera or do you own an Elphel?

I have a name... just don't know it yet :-) ....but I'm on to it. Need to find someone who speaks Latin;-)

Oscar Spierenburg · March 28th, 2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian Pichelhofer

We should start to look for an official name for the project:

I think we need a short project name and lengthier subtitle

Requirements for the project name:
*) short and descriptive
*) easy to remember
*) cool sounding
*) should allow us to reuse the name for sequell/sub projects

Requirements for the subtitle:
*) "open source"
*) "based or powered by Elphel"

OK, here's my idea: What is the most unique feature of this project and the Elphel philosophy?

-Open source-

Nothing else. Other features are all irrelevant, the whole point of us talking on this forum is because it's OPEN ..even the choice of the name itself :-)

So I figured.. what's the word for OPEN in Latin?

Open = APERTUS

So how about:

APERTUS - powered by Elphel

I think it's strong word and has a story to tell about the project background.

Sebastian Pichelhofer · March 28th, 2009, 06:46 PM

Oscar, your a genius!

It sounds similar to the very photography related word aperture!.

or the word Apparatus
Wikipedia:
Apparatus, (Latin, apparātus; plural apparatus or apparatuses) is a mass noun used to describe equipment designed or assembled for a particular purpose.

I also thought up some "epic" words but APERTUS beats them all!

Aurora (Aurora - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Guernica (Guernica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Columbus (aren't we keen adventurers as well?)

Oscar Spierenburg · March 29th, 2009, 08:56 AM

Latin is the base of most modern languages. All kinds of words and terms originated from Latin, so it makes it universal.

Matteo Pozzi · March 30th, 2009, 12:34 PM

Hi oscar
by now I've not tried any software cause I havn't got the camera yet
and now I'm spending a lot of money on software and hardware for my activity (I'm a civil engineer) so I've not so many money to spend
second, cause I'm not a programmer I had set aside the project for a while because before the coming of Sebastian (god bless you) this project (cinema side of the elphel camera) was growing so slow (I've taken a php book to learn it but it need too many time to me to start from zero) buy I've been a reader of the dvinfo thread :-)
third movie in dslr world was a fresh reality but I think that that project is more "open"
So now we have almost all that we need to start cooperate
I've made some experiment with the adapter. I've tryed a lot on this side
and I've seen that the best compromise is to use a medium format lens I've taken some old mamiya now I've got 35 3.5, 45 2.8, 80 1.9 and 2.8 and zoom 110-220
so the recipe is:
Mamiya 645 lens => 63mm => wax GG => 7mm => PCX Lens D70/FL67 [)=> +-100mm => camera
and the wax gg is made by an alloy of paraffin and beeswax 9:1. The pure paraffin is for a sale in a pharmacy

hope that that help someone :-)

I like tha idea of a name to this project
I like apertus but somthing remind me to aperture by apple
so that my quote

HYENA (very similar to a dog but almost wild - free )

don't know why but I think is cool

hi to all

Oscar Spierenburg · March 30th, 2009, 07:40 PM

I'd like to add one thing about the choice of the projects name:
We are not aiming at a mass consumer market with this name. If we would pick a too slick name, we would raise too much expectations on a 'growing' project. It has to have a modest feel to it too.

So I'd suggest we really consider Apertus.
(referring to another discussion:) I think most people around here would know how to pronounce Apertus. :-)

Sebastian Pichelhofer · March 31st, 2009, 01:30 AM

About the name: "Apertus" is still my favourite.
Is it pronnounced just like "aperture" but with an "s" at the end?

I did a quick google search:
Welcome to Apertus - Open Source, SaaS, Out Sourcing is already taken by some Indian open source software service company.

apert.us would still be available ;)

Of course we can also ask for an elphel subdomain: apertus.elphel.com

Another idea about the project name:

What about calling the project: "OpenEyes" and instead of Eye we write "Open Is" or "Open iiis"

Just imagine the video description: "filmed with open eyes" ;D

Regards Sebastian

Matteo Pozzi · March 31st, 2009, 02:46 AM

just for info:

english: open
old latin: apertus
italian: aperto
spanish: abierto

Oscar Spierenburg · March 31st, 2009, 06:39 AM

I suggest we close the discussion about the name for now and carry on with the main topic.

It will not be long before I can start testing the first 12v camera (many thanks to Elphel for improving the 12v version!)
What options do we got? The battery has to be usable for at least an hour, easy to mount at various places on the rod support (for balancing) and possibly chargeable 'on camera'. For the 333 I successfully used a drill battery, but it discharged withing half an hour and was very bulky on the camera.

Any suggestions?

EDIT: The Elphel Wiki has a page about the 12v version: http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?tit...ions&rcid=5266

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn · April 3rd, 2009, 01:47 AM

Maybe using one of those A123system battery Packs used by DeWall ?

Oscar Spierenburg · April 3rd, 2009, 06:22 PM

Yes, maybe. We also need a system where you can charge the battery AND power the camera at the same time, like a laptop. This is because we'd like to avoid rebooting (=resetting) the camera when the power runs out.

Wayne Morellini · April 5th, 2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscar Spier

This is the way to go. Those EEEPC's are relatively slow and real time preview is not yet evident on a slow PC. So we will possibly end up framing on a small (but live) image on the PC and focusing with the "peaking" method. That's why I'm going with the PC on its side now.

You could get it, there is newer technology, and dual core netbooks (tablets I don't know much) with DX10 chips with hardware acceleration. I had been waiting for Intel to release there DX10 hardware for their tablets, and now they have new n40 chipset and lower powered atom dual core. Nvidia has released a new small handheld PC box form factor (I believe they might still be talking to VIA about buying them, great move, a lot of nice portable stuff). The form factor can support a variety of processors, but newer Atom dual core is probably what you are looking for. The maximum, battery life for network that I have heard of, second hand, is around 26hours battery life, dual core In think.

Now back to it, for DX10 chips there is GPU programming, I think that the Nvidia version is called CUDA and is c++ like. But the problem is that you don't want to be the one making or converting the open source video codec for it.

March 26th, 2009, 04:24 PM	#1052
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Sebastian, I made a quick example of my idea about the interface. If the live image would be auto-scalable (to the screen resolution or window size) then we can use tablet PCs with portrait/landscape modes. This would really make the final camera smaller. But of course when the screen has rotated 90 deg, you'll end up with a small live preview and lots of empty space. With that in mind it would be a good idea to make a frame below the interface with the HDD file browser. When you're in landscape mode, you need to scroll down to use the file browser of course. In my example I've also made the buttons bigger. Those buttons should stay the same size in portrait mode, so they have to be able to rearrange in two rows. Just some suggestions :-) Attached Thumbnails

March 27th, 2009, 07:55 AM	#1053
Sebastian Pichelhofer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 112	Good ideas! I found out that mplayer can nicely be integrated into java so this would mean the whole application could be a single java applet. The concept image I made already has the 1024x600 resolution of most netbook screens. But you are right the interface should adapt itself to the current screenresolution. The main functionality of the filebrowser you mentioned would be to review recorded clips I assume. So why not add a button to review the last recorded clip as well in the main interface. I don't like the scrollbars, the filebrowser should be accessible with a normal button in the bottom menu I think. We should start to look for an official name for the project: I think we need a short project name and lengthier subtitle Requirements for the project name: ) short and descriptive ) easy to remember ) cool sounding ) should allow us to reuse the name for sequell/sub projects Requirements for the subtitle: ) "open source" ) "based or powered by Elphel" Any suggestions welcome! Btw: I created a google group for developing this camera. Just PM me if you want to participate and I will invite you. Last edited by Sebastian Pichelhofer; March 27th, 2009 at 09:23 AM.

March 31st, 2009, 01:30 AM	#1060
Sebastian Pichelhofer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 112	About the name: "Apertus" is still my favourite. Is it pronnounced just like "aperture" but with an "s" at the end? I did a quick google search: Welcome to Apertus - Open Source, SaaS, Out Sourcing is already taken by some Indian open source software service company. apert.us would still be available ;) Of course we can also ask for an elphel subdomain: apertus.elphel.com Another idea about the project name: What about calling the project: "OpenEyes" and instead of Eye we write "Open Is" or "Open iiis" Just imagine the video description: "filmed with open eyes" ;D Regards Sebastian Last edited by Sebastian Pichelhofer; March 31st, 2009 at 03:02 AM.

March 25th, 2009, 04:58 AM	#1051
Matteo Pozzi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 169	very cool maybe it is possible to add a mask on the top of the image with line of the safe area silicon imaging gui is what I think is the best one some ago I worked on this with flash ...but under linux flash is not a good idea elphel GUI-2 and I used big buttons because I tink that the way to go is the use of small screen 10" max http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/alternati...33-html-2.html

March 28th, 2009, 06:46 PM	#1056
Sebastian Pichelhofer Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 112	Oscar, your a genius! It sounds similar to the very photography related word aperture!. or the word Apparatus Wikipedia: Apparatus, (Latin, apparātus; plural apparatus or apparatuses) is a mass noun used to describe equipment designed or assembled for a particular purpose. I also thought up some "epic" words but APERTUS beats them all! Aurora (Aurora - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Guernica (Guernica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Columbus (aren't we keen adventurers as well?)

March 29th, 2009, 08:56 AM	#1057
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Latin is the base of most modern languages. All kinds of words and terms originated from Latin, so it makes it universal.

March 30th, 2009, 12:34 PM	#1058
Matteo Pozzi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 169	Hi oscar by now I've not tried any software cause I havn't got the camera yet and now I'm spending a lot of money on software and hardware for my activity (I'm a civil engineer) so I've not so many money to spend second, cause I'm not a programmer I had set aside the project for a while because before the coming of Sebastian (god bless you) this project (cinema side of the elphel camera) was growing so slow (I've taken a php book to learn it but it need too many time to me to start from zero) buy I've been a reader of the dvinfo thread :-) third movie in dslr world was a fresh reality but I think that that project is more "open" So now we have almost all that we need to start cooperate I've made some experiment with the adapter. I've tryed a lot on this side and I've seen that the best compromise is to use a medium format lens I've taken some old mamiya now I've got 35 3.5, 45 2.8, 80 1.9 and 2.8 and zoom 110-220 so the recipe is: Mamiya 645 lens => 63mm => wax GG => 7mm => PCX Lens D70/FL67 [)=> +-100mm => camera and the wax gg is made by an alloy of paraffin and beeswax 9:1. The pure paraffin is for a sale in a pharmacy hope that that help someone :-) I like tha idea of a name to this project I like apertus but somthing remind me to aperture by apple so that my quote HYENA (very similar to a dog but almost wild - free ) don't know why but I think is cool hi to all

March 30th, 2009, 07:40 PM	#1059
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	I'd like to add one thing about the choice of the projects name: We are not aiming at a mass consumer market with this name. If we would pick a too slick name, we would raise too much expectations on a 'growing' project. It has to have a modest feel to it too. So I'd suggest we really consider Apertus. (referring to another discussion:) I think most people around here would know how to pronounce Apertus. :-)

March 31st, 2009, 02:46 AM	#1061
Matteo Pozzi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 169	just for info: english: open old latin: apertus italian: aperto spanish: abierto

March 31st, 2009, 06:39 AM	#1062
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	I suggest we close the discussion about the name for now and carry on with the main topic. It will not be long before I can start testing the first 12v camera (many thanks to Elphel for improving the 12v version!) What options do we got? The battery has to be usable for at least an hour, easy to mount at various places on the rod support (for balancing) and possibly chargeable 'on camera'. For the 333 I successfully used a drill battery, but it discharged withing half an hour and was very bulky on the camera. Any suggestions? EDIT: The Elphel Wiki has a page about the 12v version: http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?tit...ions&rcid=5266

April 3rd, 2009, 01:47 AM	#1063
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina Posts: 444	Maybe using one of those A123system battery Packs used by DeWall ?

April 3rd, 2009, 06:22 PM	#1064
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Yes, maybe. We also need a system where you can charge the battery AND power the camera at the same time, like a laptop. This is because we'd like to avoid rebooting (=resetting) the camera when the power runs out.