High Definition with Elphel model 333 camera

Oscar Spierenburg · January 25th, 2008, 05:22 PM

Here just an update. I nearly finished a rod support suitable for the Elphel and all the things that need to be attached from time to time, like the 35mm adapter and bigger lenses than normal cs-mount ones.
Here is a picture of the support and the new version I'm making for the 35mm adapter (need to make a smaller (still 35mm) wax screen for this one)

Régine Weinberg · January 26th, 2008, 04:04 AM

Dear Oscar hat is tooo god to be true,
since I'm here I've been fighting, crying that rails withe lenses, compendium and a REAL viewfinder are needed as you have to look thru the lens and with the other eye the scene what ever it will be to have a re true feeling of film making and get the right focus the lens.. Sorry sounds better than sex !!!
A digital poor mans Arri is finally arriving. Exit to fiddle around with diva like used 16 mm equipment. Wow.
Dear Oscar is there any way that me
OT !!!!!!!
now Régine, since years,yes I've been Intersex just the day born; so now a petite blonde with brains but
Ot End ......
still film making and a Linux geek can build with more then two left hands quite good home tools such a beauty.
What about how to do guide for bonafide idiots.

You did exactly what is needed out in the field.
Pump it in a smallish 104 Pc with big disks, Cinarella and co will do the rest.
A Gnu project of impact not seen every day.
I' m fascinated and dreaming a great Forum.

Marie Guillaume · January 28th, 2008, 04:25 PM

Hi all,

Can anyone tell me how to buy an elphel 353 ?
Is it already available for sale ?

Thanks,

MGC

Oscar Spierenburg · January 28th, 2008, 07:45 PM

Ronald, thanks for you kind, but... strange words. I guess I know what you mean, and I am encouraged.
I really like combining the 'best of the old' and 'the best of the new'. One should respect traditional technology.

Marie, you should contact Andrey Filippov at Elphel to buy a camera. http://www3.elphel.com/en/contacts

Marie Guillaume · January 31st, 2008, 03:53 PM

Hi all,

What are the real specifications of the elphel 353 ?

Can i shoot at 24/30 fps with a 2K resolution ?

MGC

Oscar Spierenburg · January 31st, 2008, 05:29 PM

Marie, I don't know yet, the wiki says they tested 1920x1072 video at 24 FPS.

I was discussing the rolling shutter artifact with Andrey and Daniel. I never really tried virtualDub deshaker, but my first tests (with older 333 footage) was pretty good.

Before and after deshaker
I just thought I'd post it here. In my opinion, the effect isn't a big issue when you bear it in mind while filming (use a tripod, don't do fast panning etc.).
Hand held filming is not really an option with the current Elphel models, for me that's no problem.
If people have thought on this, lets discuss it.

Andrey Filippov · February 1st, 2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscar Spier

Marie, I don't know yet, the wiki says they tested 1920x1072 video at 24 FPS.

http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?tit...088x25fps.jpeg

Brandt Wilson · February 1st, 2008, 01:58 PM

Oscar, it looks like you've accomplished a lot with your camera. Well done!

Since it appears that you are working with a beamsplitter block or plate between your OVF and the camera silicon, I'm wondering how you are collimating the OVF to assure that your eye and the silicon are at the same plane of focus. Do you have a varifocal OVF, and have you been testing it against a target? Not a point of criticism, I'm just curious.

I ask because I have an old 16mm Kinoptic orientable VF from an Eclair ACL that I may attempt do something similar with.

Andre: Will the 353 take an external TTL pulse control?

Andrey Filippov · February 1st, 2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandt Wilson

Andre: Will the 353 take an external TTL pulse control?

That will be a part of the 10369 board I'm working on now. It has a 4-pin modular (like telephone) connector for sync I/O (with the optocoupler, nominal 5V input). It will be possible to wire multiple cameras and get precise lock (to a pixel period).

Andrey

Odd Nydren · February 1st, 2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrey Filippov

I'm sure you can find more info on it even in this forum, but if I had to build something like that I would use two standard lenses on the camera side, not just one.

Thanks for your feedback Andrey!
..it made me realize two things:

1. What you said is what I need to do.
2. I need to get the harddrive to work, get used to manual focus, make a gui that works for me...and THEN think about a ground glass solution ;)

I got my lens today and now I'm learning the camera...exciting!!

Andrey Filippov · February 1st, 2008, 03:38 PM

Odd,

there is a cool program (mostly FPGA code) in the last software (7.1.7.11) on Sourceforge for focusing. I believe it is useful and fun to play with.

Andrey

Oscar Spierenburg · February 1st, 2008, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandt Wilson

...working with a beamsplitter block or plate between your OVF and the camera silicon, I'm wondering how you are collimating the OVF to assure that your eye and the silicon are at the same plane of focus. Do you have a varifocal OVF, and have you been testing it against a target?

Brandt, I've made the VF adjustable (making sure I it's roughly in the same range of the sensors focal point.) I've just began comparing the picture from the sensor with the image in the VF. The eyepiece lens will capture the final image (functioning in a way as the focal plane) so I can ultimately fine adjust the focal point with the eyepiece. There is also a rough adjustment possible in the 'flipping' tube part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandt Wilson

I ask because I have an old 16mm Kinoptic orientable VF from an Eclair ACL that I may attempt do something similar with.

It would be a very nice starting point, but I choose for the 8mm camera VF, because the sensor size is nearly the same. You'll have to find a way to 'zoom' into the 16mm image to match the sensors image.

One other thing I'm working on is a viewfinder extension, making it easier to look through the VF. If possible, I'd make a separate extension, which flips the image again, so I'd see the 35mm adapters image right way up. I'm consigned about the light loss though...

Oscar Spierenburg · February 1st, 2008, 03:43 PM

...I'm very anxious to play with that new feature, Andrey. I think it'll prove to be a perfect combination with the optical viewfinder.

Andrey Filippov · February 1st, 2008, 03:53 PM

Oscar, it now combines two things - destructive (embedded into image) visualization of what the program is looking for (on the screenshot you can see - the brighter - the more high-frequency components are in each 8x8 pixel block. When you have foreground, background (and many in between, like with your lens adapter) you will see highlighted the features you focus on.
Other (green diagram) shows the total amount of hi-frequency components in the WOI regardless of if the image shows the focusing window, or not. Current value is displayed at the bottom as a horizontal line, the whole image moves up so you can see the history.

With USB port in the camera it is possible to attach audio output and provide different pitch tone dependent on that value :-)

The visualization will later be non-destructive, it will be output as one of the options for the low-res viewfinder DMA channel independently of the main images.

Andery

Odd Nydren · February 1st, 2008, 05:05 PM

For anyone who isnt bold enough to build your own optical viewfinder...
..maybe this would be of interest:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI

Similar can be found by looking for "pan cine" or "VIEW LEG" or "ANGENIEUX"

I might get one myself...was about to bid on the above one but decided to wait until I'm sure that's the route for me...

//O.

January 25th, 2008, 05:22 PM	#886
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Here just an update. I nearly finished a rod support suitable for the Elphel and all the things that need to be attached from time to time, like the 35mm adapter and bigger lenses than normal cs-mount ones. Here is a picture of the support and the new version I'm making for the 35mm adapter (need to make a smaller (still 35mm) wax screen for this one) Attached Thumbnails

January 26th, 2008, 04:04 AM	#887
Régine Weinberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bordeaux, going to Bangkok, 2011 Posts: 232	Great Oscar Dear Oscar hat is tooo god to be true, since I'm here I've been fighting, crying that rails withe lenses, compendium and a REAL viewfinder are needed as you have to look thru the lens and with the other eye the scene what ever it will be to have a re true feeling of film making and get the right focus the lens.. Sorry sounds better than sex !!! A digital poor mans Arri is finally arriving. Exit to fiddle around with diva like used 16 mm equipment. Wow. Dear Oscar is there any way that me OT !!!!!!! now Régine, since years,yes I've been Intersex just the day born; so now a petite blonde with brains but Ot End ...... still film making and a Linux geek can build with more then two left hands quite good home tools such a beauty. What about how to do guide for bonafide idiots. You did exactly what is needed out in the field. Pump it in a smallish 104 Pc with big disks, Cinarella and co will do the rest. A Gnu project of impact not seen every day. I' m fascinated and dreaming a great Forum.

January 28th, 2008, 04:25 PM	#888
Marie Guillaume New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: FRANCE Posts: 5	Elphel 353 availability Hi all, Can anyone tell me how to buy an elphel 353 ? Is it already available for sale ? Thanks, MGC

January 31st, 2008, 03:53 PM	#890
Marie Guillaume New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: FRANCE Posts: 5	About Elphel 353 Hi all, What are the real specifications of the elphel 353 ? Can i shoot at 24/30 fps with a 2K resolution ? MGC

February 1st, 2008, 01:58 PM	#893
Brandt Wilson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 220	Oscar's Viewfinder and External pulse control Oscar, it looks like you've accomplished a lot with your camera. Well done! Since it appears that you are working with a beamsplitter block or plate between your OVF and the camera silicon, I'm wondering how you are collimating the OVF to assure that your eye and the silicon are at the same plane of focus. Do you have a varifocal OVF, and have you been testing it against a target? Not a point of criticism, I'm just curious. I ask because I have an old 16mm Kinoptic orientable VF from an Eclair ACL that I may attempt do something similar with. Andre: Will the 353 take an external TTL pulse control?

January 28th, 2008, 07:45 PM	#889
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Ronald, thanks for you kind, but... strange words. I guess I know what you mean, and I am encouraged. I really like combining the 'best of the old' and 'the best of the new'. One should respect traditional technology. Marie, you should contact Andrey Filippov at Elphel to buy a camera. http://www3.elphel.com/en/contacts

January 31st, 2008, 05:29 PM	#891
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Marie, I don't know yet, the wiki says they tested 1920x1072 video at 24 FPS. I was discussing the rolling shutter artifact with Andrey and Daniel. I never really tried virtualDub deshaker, but my first tests (with older 333 footage) was pretty good. Before and after deshaker I just thought I'd post it here. In my opinion, the effect isn't a big issue when you bear it in mind while filming (use a tripod, don't do fast panning etc.). Hand held filming is not really an option with the current Elphel models, for me that's no problem. If people have thought on this, lets discuss it.

February 1st, 2008, 03:38 PM	#896
Andrey Filippov Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Magna, Utah Posts: 215	Odd, there is a cool program (mostly FPGA code) in the last software (7.1.7.11) on Sourceforge for focusing. I believe it is useful and fun to play with. Andrey Attached Thumbnails

February 1st, 2008, 03:43 PM	#898
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	...I'm very anxious to play with that new feature, Andrey. I think it'll prove to be a perfect combination with the optical viewfinder.

February 1st, 2008, 03:53 PM	#899
Andrey Filippov Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Magna, Utah Posts: 215	Oscar, it now combines two things - destructive (embedded into image) visualization of what the program is looking for (on the screenshot you can see - the brighter - the more high-frequency components are in each 8x8 pixel block. When you have foreground, background (and many in between, like with your lens adapter) you will see highlighted the features you focus on. Other (green diagram) shows the total amount of hi-frequency components in the WOI regardless of if the image shows the focusing window, or not. Current value is displayed at the bottom as a horizontal line, the whole image moves up so you can see the history. With USB port in the camera it is possible to attach audio output and provide different pitch tone dependent on that value :-) The visualization will later be non-destructive, it will be output as one of the options for the low-res viewfinder DMA channel independently of the main images. Andery Last edited by Andrey Filippov; February 1st, 2008 at 04:07 PM. Reason: typo

February 1st, 2008, 05:05 PM	#900
Odd Nydren Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 88	For anyone who isnt bold enough to build your own optical viewfinder... ..maybe this would be of interest: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI Similar can be found by looking for "pan cine" or "VIEW LEG" or "ANGENIEUX" I might get one myself...was about to bid on the above one but decided to wait until I'm sure that's the route for me... //O.