High Definition with Elphel model 333 camera

[Matteo Pozzi]

Hi Daniel many thanks for the info
did you encounter some sort of trouble on the rolling shutter side
in your shooting!?
have you discovered some method to reduce it?

[Daniel Lipats]

Originally Posted by Matteo Pozzi

Hi Daniel many thanks for the info
did you encounter some sort of trouble on the rolling shutter side
in your shooting!?
have you discovered some method to reduce it?

Yeah its defiantly there, but you have to meet certain conditions for it to be really prominent to the point of distraction. Generally its not bad...
I recall reading that older film cameras had a similar rolling shutter effect... You wanted film look right?

SI-2K shoots with a cmos chip, and they have the same rolling shutter effect. The way they minimize it is by shooting at 2x the fps, 48 for example and drop every other frame. I did some experiments trying to get 48 fps while keeping the maximum resolution. If I remember correctly I think I was able to get 48 at 1500x600 and 85% quality. I have not yet shot tests at 48 so I don't know how well this works, if at all. Its something I plan to do before next weekend.

I really don't want to shoot at anything lower then 2000x800 because using a smaller area on the chip means less DOF, and and all my lenses become zooms.

I spent all day last night editing a film I shot with the 333 about a year ago. Better late then never eh? There was no noticeable rolling shutter effect on any of the footage I ended up using. Of course all the shots were locked off since this is before my first camera platform. I may post a short rough cut up here later.

I used premiere 2. Sound sync went great, I didn't encounter any of the sound problems I thought I would. A clapper is a huge help, also important to actually say what scene, take, and even camera position.

[Matteo Pozzi]

cool, post something when you have done!
so didn't you use the 35mm adapter ....why?
are you disappointed with the result with it!?just curious
what lens are you using now?
and last did you think that is possible to record streaming directly in vista!?

[Daniel Lipats]

Originally Posted by Matteo Pozzi

cool, post something when you have done!
so didn't you use the 35mm adapter ....why?
are you disappointed with the result with it!?just curious
what lens are you using now?
and last did you think that is possible to record streaming directly in vista!?

Yeah it should work.
1) get mplayer compiled with live555
2) change your subnet to 255.255.255.0
3) set your ip to something like 192.168.0.10

As long as the broadcast packets are not getting blocked it should work fine.

I am using a 35mm adapter, a letus35. It will be somewhat a permanent part of the new camera. The film I was editing Sunday was shot with the letus35 and it is a bit soft. The camera is defiantly much sharper without the adapter. I think this is because I have every lens wide open to get enough light indoors. But if I have no other choice, i'm willing to sacrifice some quality to get the 35mm DOF.

Here is a sample clip from that film shot last year:
http://www.buysmartpc.com/temp2/phon...12K_Stream.wmv

I was just the camera operator. This is the first time I used the 333 in an actual production environment, and I really was not ready. Its got its problems. It still needs some sound work, compression especially. And there is no CC. This is unmodified video, so it has a bit of green tint to it.


The real test will be Saturday morning. Everything will be shot hand held. I just got the 7" lcd mounted on the body last night, pretty solid. Im going to mount the camera tonight, and maybe post pics of the setup.

[Matteo Pozzi]

Where can I find it (mplayer + live555)
I haven't the elphel 333 but I want to try before buy it so I think that
with the link in the elphel main page
http://www3.elphel.com/online_cameras
should work
mplayer for win havn't the gui so how can i use it?

[Daniel Lipats]

Here you go:

mplayer for windows with live555
http://www.buysmartpc.com/temp2/mplayer.zip

Check out wiki.elphel.com for instructions. Its generally Linux but mplayer examples are more or less the same. Make sure you remember to use port 7070 locally, I keep leaving that out.

[Matteo Pozzi]

many thanks and good luck for your next hand held movie!
I've tried to record from win but I think I have to install also apache php ....
and some other... :-)

[Odd Nydren]

Hi All + andrey!!

Just curious if there's any news on the harddisk + camera + software?

I'm still holding out buying a camera...as I'd really like the idea of making my own gui to control it...

Any news?? Andrey?

Happy Xmas to all of you who celebrate it...and a happy new year to all of you! :) cheers //O.

[Andrey Filippov]

Yes, we do have some boards (10349) and software that supports HD recording (camogm), Daniel is working on a user interface for it.

This was my first experiment with HDD recording ( http://community.elphel.com/videos/c...e_original.mov ) - I was had to hold camera with the tripod trying to film coyote that I noticed in the window. So it is far from professional :-)

I'm finishing now 10369 board (using 10349 as a prototype) and this is currently our top priority. Among other features 10369 accommodates 2 internal CF cards (so up to 32 MB) and has a SATA connector for external HDDs (need separate power supply). It also has USB, RS-232, and opto-isolated sync I/Os to simplify stereo and panoramic ( http://wiki.elphel.com/images/a/ab/354-11_close.jpeg, http://wiki.elphel.com/images/c/cf/3...view10353.jpeg ) camera applications.

[John Papadopoulos]

What lens and aperture did you use on that Andrey?

After a pass of Deshaker:

http://www.archive.org/download/Roll...rCMOS/cmos.wmv

[Andrey Filippov]

Just a regular varifocal 1/2" C-mount lens, camera was mounted inside this RV ( http://community.elphel.com/pictures...ElphelRV_1.jpg ) recording what was visible from the side window, but when I noticed coyote I just grabbed the camera with the tripod and tried to film it.

[Oscar Spierenburg]

Hello all,

I wanted to shoot new footage in France last week, but the circumstances (weather etc) made it too difficult to experiment.

I'd like to discuss an idea that came to mind about previewing with the Elphel camera's (or any other CMOS camera).
Besides the fact that it might be possible to get real time preview from the camera (I think Daniel is also looking in to it), one would sometimes prefer a real optical viewfinder.
Especially in bright sunlight or to frame the shot. (here is an interesting article from Ron Dexter:http://www.rondexter.com/intermediat...image_size.htm
My idea was to take a 8mm film camera (because of the CMOS sensor size) apart and use the viewfinder parts for the Elphel camera.

As I understand, most of the 8mm cameras have a 45 degrees two-way mirror in front of the shutter, which is directed to the viewfinder tube. Am I right about this?

Now, can we put all of that stuff right in front of the sensor, or does it absorb too much light or take in too much space?
It would be great because it wouldn't matter what lens (or 35mm adapter) you use, it'll always show the image from the sensor focal plane.

(I know the image from a super8 camera is small, but I think the article from Ron Dexter is right about framing the shot on a smaller image.)

[Odd Nydren]

Originally Posted by Andrey Filippov

Yes, we do have some boards (10349) and software that supports HD recording...

Wow - loads of progress!!

A few questions:

1. What max sustained datarate would be possible when doing .mov MJPEG to disk?

2. Do you have any 353's available for sale at this stage?

3. Do you have a casing available that can hold a harddrive?

Originally Posted by Andrey Filippov

I'm finishing now 10369 board (using 10349 as a prototype)..and has a SATA connector for external HDDs (need separate power supply).

..any idea if the datarate using .mov mjpeg will be the same using SATA?

Originally Posted by Andrey Filippov

It also has USB, RS-232, and opto-isolated sync I/Os

Ah! - in theory I could sync a stroboscope using these I/O's right? ..and to sync two cameras would be pretty easy too right?

I read about camogm on the wiki - if I understand it right - I have to set the size/quality etc with the web gui - or similar - then start camogm and tell it to write to disk...Is it possible to stream a lower sized image stream to a web gui while having a larger size written to disk?

Very exciting news...
..if you have the time - please shoot me some feedback!!

thanks

[Andrey Filippov]

[QUOTE=Odd Nydren;800117]
1. What max sustained datarate would be possible when doing .mov MJPEG to disk?
With the IDE drivers as they are I've measured 16MB/s writing. I'm not sure DMA is used correctly - it may be possible to improve it.

Originally Posted by Odd Nydren

2. Do you have any 353's available for sale at this stage?

Yes, we do.

Originally Posted by Odd Nydren

3. Do you have a casing available that can hold a harddrive?

No, we just hand-modified camera bodies to attach HDs. For 10369 we are working on a camera body in parallel with the PCB design. It will have room inside the standard-size body (same as 333, 353) for 2 CF cards (not hot-swappable), SATA HDD will have to have own power supply and will be connected to the camera through SATA connector on the back of the camera (near USB and network RJ45)

Originally Posted by Odd Nydren

..any idea if the datarate using .mov mjpeg will be the same using SATA?

The same. Curently speed is limited by Axis IDE, not the HDD, so there will be no difference in data rate - just convenience to attach external drives (up to 1m long cable). I hope it will be possible to tweak the IDE driver (DMA in Axis ETRAX is capable of more than that), but I don't think it will be easy to get to much higher data rate.

Originally Posted by Odd Nydren

Ah! - in theory I could sync a stroboscope using these I/O's right? ..and to sync two cameras would be pretty easy too right?

Yes, as well as have stereo HD video.

Originally Posted by Odd Nydren

I read about camogm on the wiki - if I understand it right - I have to set the size/quality etc with the web gui - or similar - then start camogm and tell it to write to disk...Is it possible to stream a lower sized image stream to a web gui while having a larger size written to disk?

All the compression is done in FPGA (CPU is far too slow to have reasonable frame rate) and currently we have only one image size at a time there. What can be done rather easy is to stream video for viewfinder with lower priority, skipping frames. While camogm will record all the data (compressed frames are stored in 19MB circular buffer in the camera system memory), streamer will send frames only if camogm is safe from buffer overrun (i.e. uses less than 1/2 of the buffer).

As for GUI - Daniel is working on a front end for camogm, but not all the driver functionality is ready -- things like autoexposure, white balance are waiting for some overhaul and better integration with PHP.

[Oscar Spierenburg]

Happy new year to everybody.

I'm busy making an optical viewfinder on the Elphel 353.
I've taken most of the prisms and tubes etc from a super8 film camera. This, because the cmos sensor is practically the same size.

The idea is to place the two-way mirror prism (inside a square piece of glass) right in front of the sensor on top of the ir-filter.
I have to cut a hole through the side (and the c-mount thread) of the Elphel and put a tube that flips the upside down image. On the end I'll put the other mirror to the eyepiece. Here is a quick drawing I made(top view): http://www.picshome.com/en/download.php?id=0A9CA9231

Originally, the second mirror was placed between the one-way mirror and the tube, but it won't fit the Elphel housing. I hope it'll work in this setup.

I'm also thinking about the 35mm adapter, because you wont need the flip-tube. This means I have to make the tube detachable, so I can put in a different eyepiece... or something..
What do you guys think. Is there an optics expert here?