High Definition with Elphel model 333 camera

Jozef Trnka · October 9th, 2007, 07:20 AM

How about this sensor?
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/c.../imx017cqe.pdf

Matteo Pozzi · October 19th, 2007, 07:49 AM

look at that for 85$ you can get
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5563564014.html
http://www.norhtec.com/products/mcjr/index.html

....we can install a small distro linux os with firefox attach a 7" lcd
and connect ethernet to the elphel 353 with a 2,5"hd or ?cf module storage?

I'm dreaming or we can get a hd camera for less than 1500$ wihtout pc!?

Steven Mingam · October 19th, 2007, 08:36 AM

You can also try :
http://www.gumstix.com/store/catalog...roducts_id=178

well if you can live with a small pc connected to a camera, materials have been here for years (as we statued already quite a few times in the New DIY HD Camera thread)

Daniel Lipats · October 19th, 2007, 08:41 AM

I just got a new 7" touch screen LCD, and a 400gb fast hdd. The touch screen is nice but really wont ever be used for input with the camera.

The new camera specs is a quad core q6600, asus p5k, 2gb ddr2 1066 ram, 400gb hdd, and a geforce 7900.

The new version of my camera will be done by this time next week in time for my film shoot.

I just wish I could get my hands on a 353

Matteo Pozzi · October 19th, 2007, 12:16 PM

I know it but for that price is the first time
and I think to near future when the storage module of the 353
is working

Daniel Lipats · October 19th, 2007, 01:16 PM

From what I can gather the 353 will be a box camera with an IDE, sata, or some sort of HDD interface.

Im interested to see how the 353 will be setup and configured. If the 353 can write directly to a hdd thats great but how to you set settings? Set exposure, white balance, ect? How would you see what your shooting to focus and frame? You would still need a computer of some sort of at least 2-3 ghz.

Unless elphel comes out with a display and interface or at least some sort of video output other then a rj45 stream but I have not seen anything about that. To add to that, an optical viewfinder is a lot more complex then it at first seems.

Its a neat feature but I think the camera is MUCH more powerful connected to a computer. For example, right now im working on some software that will pull a realtime key on the stream.

Odd Nydren · October 20th, 2007, 03:11 AM

Well...as you can control this via wifi apparently (by using a wifi dongle on the camera) you could use any kind of device with a browser and wifi.

This means anything from a lot of high-spec phones out there...to other small wifi enabled devices like this one:

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/nokia-770.htm

There is three really cool points with a solution like this.

1. Quick setup
2. Portability (wich means you use it a lot more + use it handheld)
3. You get _much_ less compression on the video as you have _much_ higher bandwidth. (direct to disk)

I dont really care if the preview has a slow framerate and is lo-res...I'll just measure the focus manually and pull it by that. Sound I'll just do with my M-Audio microtrack http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...ckII-main.html

cheers :)

Oscar Spierenburg · October 20th, 2007, 06:39 AM

Odd, that's about the first next (big) step we should take with the Elphel.
About the audio, I know someone at Elphel was testing sound recording, but that's in early stages I guess. Synchronizing audio from a device like the M-Audio or minidisk works much easier than you'd expect.
When we can begin to experiment with the 353 and HDD (I'll receive the parts and HDD soon I hope) and a small controller like the Nokia, we probably could contact someone from Elphel in Geneva. I haven't spoken to him, but I'll ask him to join this discussion.
Andrey is very busy on a really big project, so it's a bit quiet around here lately, but I hope I get some time myself. I'm working with a new Elphel Ubuntu distribution: http://community.elphel.com/files/El...ftware-Kit.iso (It's a live CD for the 353, also from the guys in Geneva)

Robert Schiebel · October 20th, 2007, 11:09 AM

I hope that the camera comes with HDD to run soon.
I am looking forward to the first results, more so.
Robert

Daniel Lipats · October 20th, 2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odd Nydren

Well...as you can control this via wifi apparently (by using a wifi dongle on the camera) you could use any kind of device with a browser and wifi.

This means anything from a lot of high-spec phones out there...to other small wifi enabled devices like this one:

http://www.mobiletechreview.com/nokia-770.htm

There is three really cool points with a solution like this.

1. Quick setup
2. Portability (wich means you use it a lot more + use it handheld)
3. You get _much_ less compression on the video as you have _much_ higher bandwidth. (direct to disk)

I dont really care if the preview has a slow framerate and is lo-res...I'll just measure the focus manually and pull it by that. Sound I'll just do with my M-Audio microtrack http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...ckII-main.html

cheers :)

The problem with that is we are talking about huge resolutions. You still need a lot of computer power to decode and preview the live555 stream. You could get a preview image but horrible realtime. And without realtime you can't frame or focus correctly.

If the elphel cameras could send a seperate smaller signal for a preview on a cell phone it would work. But it would demand even more processing from the camera to send two streams, which is pretty awkward anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscar Spier

I'm working with a new Elphel Ubuntu distribution: http://community.elphel.com/files/El...ftware-Kit.iso (It's a live CD for the 353, also from the guys in Geneva)

Keep us updated on that. I finished my Ubuntu Elphel hdd install and it works great except I can't get the input device to function, had some trouble with the touch screen too. Im short on time...

Im using Windows XP instead. Its working surprisingly well, especially since I have all the drivers already. It boots up and ready to record in about 15 seconds.

Mind if i ask why your sticking to a livecd? its slow to load, a cd-rom is noisy, wont save settings, and loading anything can be a pain. Are you going to provide an hdd install?

Régine Weinberg · October 21st, 2007, 02:15 AM

Oh, me a bit stupid
and my wothless 5 cents ...
I will tell you , not everything has to be via wifi and else.
In the film bizz since more than 25 years, can
tell you a classic viewfinder, out of a crap S16
or russian 36mm camera is the best thing for focus and else.
Even dont think of anything electronic as ist has to have the best resolution, be on axis, working with all lenses and working if the sun has gone !!
A lousy scrap display of a cell phone, can do exposure and all this, as we do not have sexy buttons to press. The rest is HDD and we need 2 to of them be hot swapped.

Matteo Pozzi · October 21st, 2007, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Lipats

Im using Windows XP instead. Its working surprisingly well, especially since I have all the drivers already. It boots up and ready to record in about 15 seconds.

wow did you mean you can record the stream using win xp?
is that right!?
how can it be done?

Daniel Lipats · October 21st, 2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matteo Pozzi

wow did you mean you can record the stream using win xp?
is that right!?
how can it be done?

of course you can :)

set your netmask to 255.255.255.0 and point a browser to 192.168.0.9 to preview/setup

then use mplayer/mencoder to play/record the rtsp stream...

make sure firewalls are off, including XP. they will block the broadcast packets and mplayer will connect but wont display any video.

you can also use VNC but it wont record...

Oscar Spierenburg · October 21st, 2007, 05:21 PM

Daniel, that sounds easy, but somehow I didn't get it to work. I'll give it a try again tomorrow. I'm interested in Ubuntu because it's suited to be installed next to XP or Vista (in my case) onto the hard drive. Also, Elphel is planning to use Ubuntu (or Kubuntu) in stead of Knoppix in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Biese

In the film bizz since more than 25 years, can
tell you a classic viewfinder, out of a crap S16
or russian 36mm camera is the best thing for focus and else.

Ronald, that's what I figured. I.m.o. there should be a bit more interest in old methods. Read this article from Ron Dexter about framing a shot : http://www.rondexter.com/intermediat...image_size.htm

Also take a look at more articles on that site: http://www.rondexter.com/

Daniel Lipats · October 21st, 2007, 06:46 PM

At what point are you having trouble?

Are you able to browse to 192.168.0.9 to set settings? Or are you having trouble playing/recording?

October 20th, 2007, 03:11 AM	#817
Odd Nydren Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 88	353 standalone... Well...as you can control this via wifi apparently (by using a wifi dongle on the camera) you could use any kind of device with a browser and wifi. This means anything from a lot of high-spec phones out there...to other small wifi enabled devices like this one: http://www.mobiletechreview.com/nokia-770.htm There is three really cool points with a solution like this. 1. Quick setup 2. Portability (wich means you use it a lot more + use it handheld) 3. You get _much_ less compression on the video as you have _much_ higher bandwidth. (direct to disk) I dont really care if the preview has a slow framerate and is lo-res...I'll just measure the focus manually and pull it by that. Sound I'll just do with my M-Audio microtrack http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...ckII-main.html cheers :)

October 21st, 2007, 02:15 AM	#821
Régine Weinberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bordeaux, going to Bangkok, 2011 Posts: 232	Hm Oh, me a bit stupid and my wothless 5 cents ... I will tell you , not everything has to be via wifi and else. In the film bizz since more than 25 years, can tell you a classic viewfinder, out of a crap S16 or russian 36mm camera is the best thing for focus and else. Even dont think of anything electronic as ist has to have the best resolution, be on axis, working with all lenses and working if the sun has gone !! A lousy scrap display of a cell phone, can do exposure and all this, as we do not have sexy buttons to press. The rest is HDD and we need 2 to of them be hot swapped.

October 9th, 2007, 07:20 AM	#811
Jozef Trnka Tourist Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Trnava, Slovakia Posts: 2	How about this sensor? http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/c.../imx017cqe.pdf

October 19th, 2007, 07:49 AM	#812
Matteo Pozzi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 169	look at that for 85$ you can get http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5563564014.html http://www.norhtec.com/products/mcjr/index.html ....we can install a small distro linux os with firefox attach a 7" lcd and connect ethernet to the elphel 353 with a 2,5"hd or ?cf module storage? I'm dreaming or we can get a hd camera for less than 1500$ wihtout pc!?

October 19th, 2007, 08:36 AM	#813
Steven Mingam Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 91	You can also try : http://www.gumstix.com/store/catalog...roducts_id=178 well if you can live with a small pc connected to a camera, materials have been here for years (as we statued already quite a few times in the New DIY HD Camera thread)

October 19th, 2007, 08:41 AM	#814
Daniel Lipats Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 260	I just got a new 7" touch screen LCD, and a 400gb fast hdd. The touch screen is nice but really wont ever be used for input with the camera. The new camera specs is a quad core q6600, asus p5k, 2gb ddr2 1066 ram, 400gb hdd, and a geforce 7900. The new version of my camera will be done by this time next week in time for my film shoot. I just wish I could get my hands on a 353

October 19th, 2007, 12:16 PM	#815
Matteo Pozzi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 169	I know it but for that price is the first time and I think to near future when the storage module of the 353 is working

October 19th, 2007, 01:16 PM	#816
Daniel Lipats Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 260	From what I can gather the 353 will be a box camera with an IDE, sata, or some sort of HDD interface. Im interested to see how the 353 will be setup and configured. If the 353 can write directly to a hdd thats great but how to you set settings? Set exposure, white balance, ect? How would you see what your shooting to focus and frame? You would still need a computer of some sort of at least 2-3 ghz. Unless elphel comes out with a display and interface or at least some sort of video output other then a rj45 stream but I have not seen anything about that. To add to that, an optical viewfinder is a lot more complex then it at first seems. Its a neat feature but I think the camera is MUCH more powerful connected to a computer. For example, right now im working on some software that will pull a realtime key on the stream.

October 20th, 2007, 06:39 AM	#818
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Odd, that's about the first next (big) step we should take with the Elphel. About the audio, I know someone at Elphel was testing sound recording, but that's in early stages I guess. Synchronizing audio from a device like the M-Audio or minidisk works much easier than you'd expect. When we can begin to experiment with the 353 and HDD (I'll receive the parts and HDD soon I hope) and a small controller like the Nokia, we probably could contact someone from Elphel in Geneva. I haven't spoken to him, but I'll ask him to join this discussion. Andrey is very busy on a really big project, so it's a bit quiet around here lately, but I hope I get some time myself. I'm working with a new Elphel Ubuntu distribution: http://community.elphel.com/files/El...ftware-Kit.iso (It's a live CD for the 353, also from the guys in Geneva)

October 20th, 2007, 11:09 AM	#819
Robert Schiebel New Boot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany, near munich Posts: 14	I hope that the camera comes with HDD to run soon. I am looking forward to the first results, more so. Robert

October 21st, 2007, 06:46 PM	#825
Daniel Lipats Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 260	At what point are you having trouble? Are you able to browse to 192.168.0.9 to set settings? Or are you having trouble playing/recording?