High Definition with Elphel model 333 camera

Oscar Spierenburg · February 7th, 2007, 07:31 PM

But you don't want the buttons to be -on- the video frame. So, would it be possible to make a separate html frame below the ajax page with the film controls as html links to the camera(and save it to the camera?). Or is it more complex than that?

Wayne Morellini · February 8th, 2007, 08:15 AM

Other alternatives to the old Nokia Tablet. Here is that Phone, and an new Samsung phone, and I believe Samsung is also the one to soon release and Ultra Mobile PC phone with folded keyboard (www.bright hand.com had news on it too).

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4548
No mention of an usable interface though.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/02...f700_3g_phone/

Neonode.com is about to do an new phone (Pity no Linux).

There are an number of Linux devices too (see allLinuxdevices etc).

Wayne Morellini · February 8th, 2007, 08:22 AM

Good Window graphics hardware has overlay capability, but Linux probably doesn't support it, let alone plug ins and web interfaces.

Rob Scott · February 8th, 2007, 08:48 AM

The new Nokia N800 (which replaces the 770) has these specs:

OMAP2420 microprocessor, 330 MHz
128 MB of RAM
256 MB of flash
Display: 4.1 inches diagonal, 800×480
Touchscreen
WiFi: 802.11b/g
(2) full-sized Secure Digital card slots
Speakers and headphone jack

Since it uses the Maemo open-source stack, it is fully customizable.

Andrey Filippov · February 8th, 2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini

Good Window graphics hardware has overlay capability, but Linux probably doesn't support it, let alone plug ins and web interfaces.

Maybe it already has - I just have very little experience with that OS since 2001. What I do know is that I could not make camvc work with Internet Explorer as it did not support semi-transparent images I needed (probably the later IE7 does but it was not available then).

Couple years ago I bought a fancy HP handheld (with bright 640x480 screen) because my Zaurus had only 320x240 and the screen was hardly visible at daytime outdoors. I thought a simple task of just displaying JPEGs and some controls in the browser is an easy task so operating system does not matter.

Unfortunately it was not true - the "Mobile XP" system did not have Opera (definitely the best browser for the mobile devices) and I could not install it myself. So - only IE that I (and my more experienced with Windows friends) could make to use 100% of pixels for the content - Windows still preserved a frame of the IE - just made it smaller. It is probably OK on 1920x1200 on a desktop, but not on a mobile device. So failing to make it work I gave that toy to a friend - at that time it was very new and no Linux distro was available for it. And instead I have bought 770 for half the price.

So I consider Opera to be a must for such camera remote controls (disclaimer: I do not use Opera on my "big" computers) and GNU/Linux-based systems are easier to customize if your intended use is somewhat different from what manufacturer had in mind.

Odd Nydren · February 8th, 2007, 01:01 PM

I agree - opera rocks!

One question though, Andrey - would it be possible to create a VGA out + make a simple gui using the camera computer?

If so...one of these 1024x768 touchscreen display's could be used:
http://www.lilliputweb.net/ts629.html
http://www.lilliputweb.net/ts619.html

..connecting to VGA and USB.
Eliminating the hassle of a laptop/PDA.

What do you think?

//O.

Wayne Morellini · February 8th, 2007, 01:49 PM

..........

Rob Scott · February 8th, 2007, 02:21 PM

Instead of relying on the existing web-based UI, it seems to me that a UI built into the streaming video would be best. For example, generate a native N800-resolution (800x480) stream with UI elements alongside the "viewfinder" image. (See attachment.)

While the touchscreen could be used for input, I was thinking more along the lines of using a wireless/wired USB input device such as a mini-keypad or Speedpad N52 which provide tactile feedback and could be used quickly without having to move your eyes from the viewfinder to any UI buttons.

Andrey Filippov · February 8th, 2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odd Nydren

One question though, Andrey - would it be possible to create a VGA out + make a simple gui using the camera computer?

I don't think it is a really good idea - it will be too expensive to develop such system (you can not spread development cost over high volume) and VGA - isn't it going obsolete?

I think it is better to use inexpensive off-the shelf devices connected with existent interface(s)

Andrey Filippov · February 8th, 2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Scott

Instead of relying on the existing web-based UI, it seems to me that a UI built into the streaming video would be best. For example, generate a native N800-resolution (800x480) stream with UI elements alongside the "viewfinder" image.

I don't like this idea too much either - it is not a modern approach :-)

Developing and implementing such user interface from scratch can again be prohibitively expensive with low-volume production. If it is all inside the camera you'll have to make sure that interface functions will not compete over the resources with the streamer causing drop-outs.

Using power of web browser simplifies development and improves portability of the solution. Portability is important as the hardware (including 3-rd party like tablets) become obsolete rather soon

Odd Nydren · February 9th, 2007, 05:14 AM

You are right Andrey...keeping the camera non specific and putting all the GUI and display mechanisms in an external device makes sense. Good point about spreading development costs over volume.

So far the Nokia devices seem most likely to work.
More info about the N800: (successor to Nokia 770)
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/n...ablet-unboxed/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/5th_ave...7594461870146/
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...57594461870146

Ok...so now I just have to be really patient until April...

I REALLY look forward to harddisk recording :)

//O.

Rob Scott · February 9th, 2007, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrey Filippov

Developing and implementing such user interface from scratch can again be prohibitively expensive with low-volume production. If it is all inside the camera you'll have to make sure that interface functions will not compete over the resources with the streamer causing drop-outs.

I understand -- at the same time, it would be nice to be able to include overlays directly in the video stream.

Wayne Morellini · February 9th, 2007, 09:47 AM

Out of curiosity, here is that Pocket Samsung UMPC phone, with 1Ghz processor:

http://www.carrypad.com/products/product.php?id=51

Here is an replacement for the 9500 keyboard phone, lucky I didn't get the old model on ebay. I hope there will be an replacement for the tablet phone too:

http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia...t-pics/156093/
http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia...t-pics/156092/

Hurcan Emre · February 10th, 2007, 12:47 PM

sorry for interrupting but i couln't undestand the reason why you are not using a hd webcam sensor that is ready to connect by usb2 and a laptop to capture directly?

sorry about that if you mentioned the answer before but my english is not very good and i might have missed it...

Andrey Filippov · February 11th, 2007, 03:58 AM

Finally - got first images from the 353

February 8th, 2007, 08:48 AM	#439
Rob Scott Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, TN (USA) Posts: 358	Nokia N800 The new Nokia N800 (which replaces the 770) has these specs: OMAP2420 microprocessor, 330 MHz 128 MB of RAM 256 MB of flash Display: 4.1 inches diagonal, 800×480 Touchscreen WiFi: 802.11b/g (2) full-sized Secure Digital card slots Speakers and headphone jack Since it uses the Maemo open-source stack, it is fully customizable.

February 8th, 2007, 01:01 PM	#441
Odd Nydren Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 88	Device... I agree - opera rocks! One question though, Andrey - would it be possible to create a VGA out + make a simple gui using the camera computer? If so...one of these 1024x768 touchscreen display's could be used: http://www.lilliputweb.net/ts629.html http://www.lilliputweb.net/ts619.html ..connecting to VGA and USB. Eliminating the hassle of a laptop/PDA. What do you think? //O.

February 8th, 2007, 01:49 PM	#442
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	.......... Last edited by Wayne Morellini; February 9th, 2007 at 07:28 AM.

February 8th, 2007, 02:21 PM	#443
Rob Scott Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, TN (USA) Posts: 358	Instead of relying on the existing web-based UI, it seems to me that a UI built into the streaming video would be best. For example, generate a native N800-resolution (800x480) stream with UI elements alongside the "viewfinder" image. (See attachment.) While the touchscreen could be used for input, I was thinking more along the lines of using a wireless/wired USB input device such as a mini-keypad or Speedpad N52 which provide tactile feedback and could be used quickly without having to move your eyes from the viewfinder to any UI buttons. Attached Thumbnails

February 9th, 2007, 05:14 AM	#446
Odd Nydren Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 88	Gui... You are right Andrey...keeping the camera non specific and putting all the GUI and display mechanisms in an external device makes sense. Good point about spreading development costs over volume. So far the Nokia devices seem most likely to work. More info about the N800: (successor to Nokia 770) http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/n...ablet-unboxed/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/5th_ave...7594461870146/ http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...57594461870146 Ok...so now I just have to be really patient until April... I REALLY look forward to harddisk recording :) //O. Last edited by Odd Nydren; February 9th, 2007 at 06:14 AM.

February 7th, 2007, 07:31 PM	#436
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	But you don't want the buttons to be -on- the video frame. So, would it be possible to make a separate html frame below the ajax page with the film controls as html links to the camera(and save it to the camera?). Or is it more complex than that?

February 8th, 2007, 08:15 AM	#437
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Other alternatives to the old Nokia Tablet. Here is that Phone, and an new Samsung phone, and I believe Samsung is also the one to soon release and Ultra Mobile PC phone with folded keyboard (www.bright hand.com had news on it too). http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4548 No mention of an usable interface though. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/02...f700_3g_phone/ Neonode.com is about to do an new phone (Pity no Linux). There are an number of Linux devices too (see allLinuxdevices etc).

February 8th, 2007, 08:22 AM	#438
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Good Window graphics hardware has overlay capability, but Linux probably doesn't support it, let alone plug ins and web interfaces.

February 9th, 2007, 09:47 AM	#448
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Out of curiosity, here is that Pocket Samsung UMPC phone, with 1Ghz processor: http://www.carrypad.com/products/product.php?id=51 Here is an replacement for the 9500 keyboard phone, lucky I didn't get the old model on ebay. I hope there will be an replacement for the tablet phone too: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia...t-pics/156093/ http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia...t-pics/156092/

February 10th, 2007, 12:47 PM	#449
Hurcan Emre Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 32	sorry for interrupting but i couln't undestand the reason why you are not using a hd webcam sensor that is ready to connect by usb2 and a laptop to capture directly? sorry about that if you mentioned the answer before but my english is not very good and i might have missed it... Last edited by Hurcan Emre; February 11th, 2007 at 03:56 AM.

February 11th, 2007, 03:58 AM	#450
Andrey Filippov Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Magna, Utah Posts: 215	353 - got first images Finally - got first images from the 353