High Definition with Elphel model 333 camera

Matteo Pozzi · January 24th, 2007, 07:44 AM

Hi oscar have you got some screengrab to show us what is possible to do with the elphel 333+35mm adapter? I want to make the project too but for now I'm waiting for the 353... I don't know much of programming but I'm trying to understand how the "ajax-html" control panel of the elphel work so that I "can" change the gui but now I've so little time to spend
nice to see so many people looking at this project!

Nikos Olsen · January 24th, 2007, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscar Spier

Nikos, do you mean to design this for the Elphel? I own the 333 and I'm really looking forward to a more simple setup/control panel, dedicated to film making.
Maybe something that also implements audio recording.

Yes, it would be for the Eplhel, dedicated to filmmaking as you say. Although I do not have the skills to program the interface, I would like to come up with ideas that maybe someone else can implement.

Since you own and use the 333, please come up with suggestions on which main buttons that should be in the interface if you have any.

Also, like Matteo asked, I would love to see some pics shot with the 333 with the adapter.

Oscar Spierenburg · January 24th, 2007, 09:01 AM

Matteo, I'll climb on the roof and shoot something.... (and I don't mean pigeons)

Nikos, that's great.. I'll write down what buttons I use when I shoot a clip.

Igor Babic · January 24th, 2007, 12:17 PM

This is perfect. I know its hard to do, but its good guide how to do it.
http://www.siliconimaging.com/Digita...Interface.html
Only thing I will add is disk free space indicator all the time on screen.

I think is on this Touchscreen LCD:
http://www.cappuccinopc.com/parts/mr-xe-700y.asp

Matteo Pozzi · January 24th, 2007, 01:18 PM

the silicon imaging gui is the best one I said that on this thread long time ago :-)
for the lcd the best one is one from Lilliput (http://www.lilliputweb.net/product8.html) I've made a projector based on one of this to watch dvd on the wall and work awesome and is not so expansive! you can find one new on ebay at about 230$

Nikos Olsen · January 24th, 2007, 02:00 PM

I agree the SI gui is great but I dind´t think it would be possible to code something like that i Ajax with overlays and all. or is it?

Igor Babic · January 24th, 2007, 03:52 PM

353/333 interface dont have to be so fancy, all that matters is functionality and this is the way how. I wish SI sell their software at lower price and without cineform suff and compatible with couple of machine vision cameras so we can have a chioce to choose a camera on our budget and resolution.

Matteo Pozzi · January 25th, 2007, 08:03 AM

http://ubuntustudio.org/
maybe is arrive the time to switch to linux

Oscar Spierenburg · January 25th, 2007, 07:45 PM

When I put all my equipment on the roof and set up the elphel software, a dark cloud stopped by and it began to rain very badly...

I shot some low light tests indoors, but I forgot to crank up the JPEG quality (standard at 70 %) That's the reason for the large compression artifacts.
Besides that, you can see the result of my 35mm wax adaptor and the Elphel 333.

http://s09.picshome.com/d35/comp_1__0-00-08-04_.jpg
http://s09.picshome.com/d35/comp_1__0-00-30-00_.jpg

I'll write more about the software/control panel later when I have more time.

Matteo Pozzi · January 26th, 2007, 07:19 AM

good result Oscar I've tried to resize the picture to 1280x720 and they look much sharper than the result of a hdv camera with 35mm adapter cool!
one question; you said that thay are low light test indoors ....but how much low light!? are you able to tell more about the light setup!?
and last ....are you able to shot a test in complitely night with the light of only a wax candle at a distance of about 1 meter with a 50mm lens so that is possible to compare with some other setup?
many thanks Matteo Pozzi

Oscar Spierenburg · January 26th, 2007, 04:01 PM

Matteo, I used one 150W light.
I'll write more when I have more time. I don't have the camera with me the comming three days.

Oscar Spierenburg · January 27th, 2007, 08:27 AM

Nikos, here are some thoughts on the software.

Most of the time you spent before actual filming is setting up all basic settings to 'default' film. Default would be i.m.o. - 24fps, shutter at max 30, 900x1600 pixels, JPEG quality to at least 80%, streamer to kuklin-rtsp at 24FPS.

I think everyone who wants to use the camera for film making, would want these settings set up as default.
This would also mean that you don't need these settings on the 'main page' anymore.

The only buttons you need are:

-exposure control (auto and manual)

-White balance (which can be automatic while pointing at a white object or something and an option to press 'hold' so it won't change while filming.)

-Brightness, contrast and gain

-color/BW (or color saturation)

-STEAMER ON/OFF (very important)

-REC (somehow I can't use the rec button on the AJAX panel so I use some button called stream.sdp. (maybe Andrey knows more about this)

I think that's it. It would be nice to have big buttons because of the clumsy touchpad on most laptops.
Nikos, you say ' for touchscreen purposes', but I hope -not only- for touchscreen?

(edit)For those who want to see how the current AJAX controls works, take a look at the online Elphel camera's: http://www3.elphel.com/online_cameras

And here is a good article on the software: http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT5951285077.html

Matteo Pozzi · January 29th, 2007, 08:43 AM

Hi oscar I haven't understand what is the streamer on/off
if I have time I'll try to develop something!
best reguard Matteo Pozzi

Oscar Spierenburg · January 29th, 2007, 06:54 PM

Matteo,
Normally, the camera will give about one picture per second. But when you start he streamer (Theora) it will start streaming images at a given FPS. The nice thing about the AJAX interface is that it shows a big image and a magnified smaller window for focusing, when the streamer is OFF. Of course a 'film' control panel could start the streamer as default, but I don't know if I'd prefer it.

Here you can see the streamer on/off button in the AJAX setup:
http://s09.picshome.com/0b9/ajax_streamer.jpg

Matteo Pozzi · January 30th, 2007, 02:20 AM

perfect I've understand so the interface is exactly the html page that is on the elphel.com page (now with windows I cant use it ...don't know why...but I've used some ago) are you able to tell me some more about the firmware upgrade of the camera? is the html included in this one or there are some different mode to mount it on the camera? how many kb is it possible to use to make the html? and last is it possible to make a big html with a good graphics (big image) to install on the pc and not in the camera to control it with button that are link to somthing like http://192.168.0.9/axis-cgi/jpg/imag...compression=30 ( ---->to obtain an image with the assigned set of parameters)? maybe I'll write also to Andrey to ask for more specific info

January 27th, 2007, 08:27 AM	#387
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Control Panel Nikos, here are some thoughts on the software. Most of the time you spent before actual filming is setting up all basic settings to 'default' film. Default would be i.m.o. - 24fps, shutter at max 30, 900x1600 pixels, JPEG quality to at least 80%, streamer to kuklin-rtsp at 24FPS. I think everyone who wants to use the camera for film making, would want these settings set up as default. This would also mean that you don't need these settings on the 'main page' anymore. The only buttons you need are: -exposure control (auto and manual) -White balance (which can be automatic while pointing at a white object or something and an option to press 'hold' so it won't change while filming.) -Brightness, contrast and gain -color/BW (or color saturation) -STEAMER ON/OFF (very important) -REC (somehow I can't use the rec button on the AJAX panel so I use some button called stream.sdp. (maybe Andrey knows more about this) I think that's it. It would be nice to have big buttons because of the clumsy touchpad on most laptops. Nikos, you say ' for touchscreen purposes', but I hope -not only- for touchscreen? (edit)For those who want to see how the current AJAX controls works, take a look at the online Elphel camera's: http://www3.elphel.com/online_cameras And here is a good article on the software: http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT5951285077.html

January 24th, 2007, 07:44 AM	#376
Matteo Pozzi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 169	Hi oscar have you got some screengrab to show us what is possible to do with the elphel 333+35mm adapter? I want to make the project too but for now I'm waiting for the 353... I don't know much of programming but I'm trying to understand how the "ajax-html" control panel of the elphel work so that I "can" change the gui but now I've so little time to spend nice to see so many people looking at this project!

January 24th, 2007, 09:01 AM	#378
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Matteo, I'll climb on the roof and shoot something.... (and I don't mean pigeons) Nikos, that's great.. I'll write down what buttons I use when I shoot a clip.

January 24th, 2007, 12:17 PM	#379
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	This is perfect. I know its hard to do, but its good guide how to do it. http://www.siliconimaging.com/Digita...Interface.html Only thing I will add is disk free space indicator all the time on screen. I think is on this Touchscreen LCD: http://www.cappuccinopc.com/parts/mr-xe-700y.asp

January 24th, 2007, 01:18 PM	#380
Matteo Pozzi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 169	the silicon imaging gui is the best one I said that on this thread long time ago :-) for the lcd the best one is one from Lilliput (http://www.lilliputweb.net/product8.html) I've made a projector based on one of this to watch dvd on the wall and work awesome and is not so expansive! you can find one new on ebay at about 230$

January 24th, 2007, 02:00 PM	#381
Nikos Olsen New Boot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Greece Posts: 6	I agree the SI gui is great but I dind´t think it would be possible to code something like that i Ajax with overlays and all. or is it?

January 24th, 2007, 03:52 PM	#382
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	353/333 interface dont have to be so fancy, all that matters is functionality and this is the way how. I wish SI sell their software at lower price and without cineform suff and compatible with couple of machine vision cameras so we can have a chioce to choose a camera on our budget and resolution.

January 25th, 2007, 08:03 AM	#383
Matteo Pozzi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 169	http://ubuntustudio.org/ maybe is arrive the time to switch to linux

January 25th, 2007, 07:45 PM	#384
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	When I put all my equipment on the roof and set up the elphel software, a dark cloud stopped by and it began to rain very badly... I shot some low light tests indoors, but I forgot to crank up the JPEG quality (standard at 70 %) That's the reason for the large compression artifacts. Besides that, you can see the result of my 35mm wax adaptor and the Elphel 333. http://s09.picshome.com/d35/comp_1__0-00-08-04_.jpg http://s09.picshome.com/d35/comp_1__0-00-30-00_.jpg I'll write more about the software/control panel later when I have more time.

January 26th, 2007, 07:19 AM	#385
Matteo Pozzi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 169	good result Oscar I've tried to resize the picture to 1280x720 and they look much sharper than the result of a hdv camera with 35mm adapter cool! one question; you said that thay are low light test indoors ....but how much low light!? are you able to tell more about the light setup!? and last ....are you able to shot a test in complitely night with the light of only a wax candle at a distance of about 1 meter with a 50mm lens so that is possible to compare with some other setup? many thanks Matteo Pozzi

January 26th, 2007, 04:01 PM	#386
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Matteo, I used one 150W light. I'll write more when I have more time. I don't have the camera with me the comming three days.

January 29th, 2007, 08:43 AM	#388
Matteo Pozzi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 169	Hi oscar I haven't understand what is the streamer on/off if I have time I'll try to develop something! best reguard Matteo Pozzi

January 29th, 2007, 06:54 PM	#389
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Matteo, Normally, the camera will give about one picture per second. But when you start he streamer (Theora) it will start streaming images at a given FPS. The nice thing about the AJAX interface is that it shows a big image and a magnified smaller window for focusing, when the streamer is OFF. Of course a 'film' control panel could start the streamer as default, but I don't know if I'd prefer it. Here you can see the streamer on/off button in the AJAX setup: http://s09.picshome.com/0b9/ajax_streamer.jpg

January 30th, 2007, 02:20 AM	#390
Matteo Pozzi Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 169	perfect I've understand so the interface is exactly the html page that is on the elphel.com page (now with windows I cant use it ...don't know why...but I've used some ago) are you able to tell me some more about the firmware upgrade of the camera? is the html included in this one or there are some different mode to mount it on the camera? how many kb is it possible to use to make the html? and last is it possible to make a big html with a good graphics (big image) to install on the pc and not in the camera to control it with button that are link to somthing like http://192.168.0.9/axis-cgi/jpg/imag...compression=30 ( ---->to obtain an image with the assigned set of parameters)? maybe I'll write also to Andrey to ask for more specific info