High Definition with Elphel model 333 camera

Rob Scott · November 16th, 2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serge Victorovich

Wavelet Based RAW

That certainly would be cool. Aside from Andrey's work on Theora, the only similar free/open FPGA project I found was dwt2d -- no files were released though. Anyone else know of something similar?

Serge Victorovich · November 16th, 2006, 12:52 PM

Rob, google: raw to wavelet+open source ;)
Some useful links also:
http://www.compression-links.info/Wavelets
www.openraw.org
www.openfpga.org
www.doom9.org

Very interesting "geometric wavelets"

http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~amir1/PS/gwcoding.pdf

Wayne Morellini · November 17th, 2006, 05:41 AM

A good post Serge. From my understanding, at lower compression ratio the quality difference narrows for standard Jpeg pixel format. The present differential compression should be a lot simpler and faster. But using wavelet for the differential over a number of frames should compress more. Cineform does this, and their Raw codec get around 6:1, but I do not know wherever that is just visual lossless or true lossless, as David's answers were a bit obscure. I imagine at least 3:1+ on average.

Their are many wavelet codec projects, their are an number listed on wikipedia, I posted a number of links here a few months ago. 2D and 3D inter frame Wavelet (used for security cameras and webcams) gets more, but I do not know if they are any good for visually lossless or true lossless. I had also been in contact with a guy from the BBC Dirac open wavelet codec (and FPGA design) they are good to contact (though they are normal codec so far).

Andrey Filippov · November 26th, 2006, 11:17 PM

I finished the tests I wanted to perform with the 353 prototype - upgraded FPGA software to version Xilinx WebPack 8.2i (it was not so easy to make it produce the same timing), updated some of our drivers to work with Kernel 2.6 (it was 2.4) and with new ETRAX FS processor. FPGA configuration works, attached 64MB DDR SDRAM - also OK. So now the corrected Gerber files are released in production.

Wayne Morellini · November 27th, 2006, 07:55 AM

Andrey, I still get people enquiring about projects like this. What is the new time line you expect for camera arrival, and any new additions and sensors that you might be considering?

It is hard to answer people about cameras when I'm not in the project and information is incomplete. If there was basic information on the performance, capabilities, limitations, and pricings of the camera, and the Digital Cinema projects surrounding it, I could simply point people there?

Andrey Filippov · November 29th, 2006, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini

Andrey, I still get people enquiring about projects like this. What is the new time line you expect for camera arrival, and any new additions and sensors that you might be considering?

It is hard to answer people about cameras when I'm not in the project and information is incomplete. If there was basic information on the performance, capabilities, limitations, and pricings of the camera, and the Digital Cinema projects surrounding it, I could simply point people there?

Wayne,

I'm trying to update development/production status here, and I do (usually) answer direct emails. At the moment I do not know the exact price (just hope it to keep about the same as it was for 333). I hope to have a first batch of the camera boards in about a month - it is now our highest priority.

The first sensor available with the camera will be Micron 5 MPix, older boards will need some modifications as the 353 board uses 2.5 V for the interface signals - not 3.3V as earlier models did. I am planning to use slower CCD (11 and 16 MPix) - similar to our model 323 camera, 8MPix - when it will be available from Micron, and have some work on dedicated hardware/firmware for compensating of the ERS effect of the moving camera.

We'll have info on the camera when it will actually be available posted on the web site, preliminary one - it is only here, in this thread.

Andrey

Wayne Morellini · November 29th, 2006, 10:37 PM

Thank you Andrey, but it might be more efficient to house a summary of the broad/preliminary information in one place (because it is very scattered and forgotten in this long thread) then repeatedly answering the same questions by email.

I have suggested to dvinfo in times past, for a modifiable sticky post, or link, at the head of threads like this, for the same reason. So, thread starters/moderators can post summary of where projects are, and save people reading through project threads. I think this can cut down traffic by 50% on these long threads too (or more).

Andrey Filippov · December 7th, 2006, 08:08 PM

Wayne, we can start something on our wiki.elphel.com about that. Now I'm pretty busy with new hardware development - several new boards will be released soon.

Wayne Morellini · December 9th, 2006, 09:44 AM

Cool!
,,,,,,

Andrey Filippov · December 12th, 2006, 01:18 PM

I finished Gerber files for 2 new boards - one with 8 Compact Flash slots and the other has FPGA+DDR SDRAM (64MB) - exactly like on 353 board and 4 flex cable connectors (one - to 353, 3 - to sensor boards). It allows to attach up to 3 sensor boards to a single 353, making it possible perform some image processing there (i.e. stereo).

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn · December 12th, 2006, 05:15 PM

Nice, now I just need a PCI interface to connect the camera to a PC and get higher bandwidth than 100 Mbit and have greater flexibility.
That way I can really make a camera system. :)

Zsolt Hegyi · December 14th, 2006, 01:19 PM

Hi all,

What do you think about this one: using a small camcorder for viewfinder (as close to the Elphel as possible, its lens set to the same distance) and a usb numeric keypad plugged into the Elphel to control the recording? We won't be able to record sound tough.

Zsolt

Rob Scott · December 14th, 2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsolt Hegyi

What do you think about this one: using a small camcorder for viewfinder (as close to the Elphel as possible, its lens set to the same distance) and a usb numeric keypad plugged into the Elphel to control the recording?

How about the Nostromo SpeedPad N52?

Zsolt Hegyi · December 15th, 2006, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Scott

How about the Nostromo SpeedPad N52?

Sounds good but we need linux drivers - the article doesn't mention it. If we can use it as a regular keyboard then it's ok.

Zsolt

Rob Scott · December 15th, 2006, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsolt Hegyi

If we can use it as a regular keyboard then it's ok.

Without a driver it generates keystrokes and mouse wheel events. It looks affordable, too, at around $20.

November 16th, 2006, 12:52 PM	#332
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	Rob, google: raw to wavelet+open source ;) Some useful links also: http://www.compression-links.info/Wavelets www.openraw.org www.openfpga.org www.doom9.org Very interesting "geometric wavelets" http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~amir1/PS/gwcoding.pdf Last edited by Serge Victorovich; November 16th, 2006 at 02:34 PM.

November 26th, 2006, 11:17 PM	#334
Andrey Filippov Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Magna, Utah Posts: 215	353 update I finished the tests I wanted to perform with the 353 prototype - upgraded FPGA software to version Xilinx WebPack 8.2i (it was not so easy to make it produce the same timing), updated some of our drivers to work with Kernel 2.6 (it was 2.4) and with new ETRAX FS processor. FPGA configuration works, attached 64MB DDR SDRAM - also OK. So now the corrected Gerber files are released in production.

December 7th, 2006, 08:08 PM	#338
Andrey Filippov Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Magna, Utah Posts: 215	Info about 353 Wayne, we can start something on our wiki.elphel.com about that. Now I'm pretty busy with new hardware development - several new boards will be released soon.

December 12th, 2006, 01:18 PM	#340
Andrey Filippov Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Magna, Utah Posts: 215	2 new additions to 353 I finished Gerber files for 2 new boards - one with 8 Compact Flash slots and the other has FPGA+DDR SDRAM (64MB) - exactly like on 353 board and 4 flex cable connectors (one - to 353, 3 - to sensor boards). It allows to attach up to 3 sensor boards to a single 353, making it possible perform some image processing there (i.e. stereo).

December 14th, 2006, 01:19 PM	#342
Zsolt Hegyi Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hungary Posts: 59	Hi all, What do you think about this one: using a small camcorder for viewfinder (as close to the Elphel as possible, its lens set to the same distance) and a usb numeric keypad plugged into the Elphel to control the recording? We won't be able to record sound tough. Zsolt Last edited by Zsolt Hegyi; December 15th, 2006 at 02:59 AM.

November 17th, 2006, 05:41 AM	#333
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	A good post Serge. From my understanding, at lower compression ratio the quality difference narrows for standard Jpeg pixel format. The present differential compression should be a lot simpler and faster. But using wavelet for the differential over a number of frames should compress more. Cineform does this, and their Raw codec get around 6:1, but I do not know wherever that is just visual lossless or true lossless, as David's answers were a bit obscure. I imagine at least 3:1+ on average. Their are many wavelet codec projects, their are an number listed on wikipedia, I posted a number of links here a few months ago. 2D and 3D inter frame Wavelet (used for security cameras and webcams) gets more, but I do not know if they are any good for visually lossless or true lossless. I had also been in contact with a guy from the BBC Dirac open wavelet codec (and FPGA design) they are good to contact (though they are normal codec so far).

November 27th, 2006, 07:55 AM	#335
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Andrey, I still get people enquiring about projects like this. What is the new time line you expect for camera arrival, and any new additions and sensors that you might be considering? It is hard to answer people about cameras when I'm not in the project and information is incomplete. If there was basic information on the performance, capabilities, limitations, and pricings of the camera, and the Digital Cinema projects surrounding it, I could simply point people there?

November 29th, 2006, 10:37 PM	#337
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Thank you Andrey, but it might be more efficient to house a summary of the broad/preliminary information in one place (because it is very scattered and forgotten in this long thread) then repeatedly answering the same questions by email. I have suggested to dvinfo in times past, for a modifiable sticky post, or link, at the head of threads like this, for the same reason. So, thread starters/moderators can post summary of where projects are, and save people reading through project threads. I think this can cut down traffic by 50% on these long threads too (or more).

December 9th, 2006, 09:44 AM	#339
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Cool! ,,,,,,

December 12th, 2006, 05:15 PM	#341
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina Posts: 444	Nice, now I just need a PCI interface to connect the camera to a PC and get higher bandwidth than 100 Mbit and have greater flexibility. That way I can really make a camera system. :)