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#61 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sevilla (Spain)
Posts: 439
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Too bad... We need constant frame rate for this. Damn! Almost there! 1920x720 at 30fps!!
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#62 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sevilla (Spain)
Posts: 439
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Hey! Did you think I was going to let you all without any clip from the micron board?
http://www.cus-cus.net/dvinfo/Video03-1280x533.avi The three clips are 1280x533 (1:2.40) 24fps. This of course is me. Please don't pay attention to that and focus on the camera. This was recorded at about 2 in the afternoon. No color correction. In fact the camera has a white balance and color correction option but these three clips are just what the camera actually sees. Debayered, Mjpeg encoded and uploaded. http://www.cus-cus.net/dvinfo/Video04-1280x533.avi Very slow pan. It's not smooth, I know :). It was also 8 in the evening so it was a bit dark. A bit of noise too. http://www.cus-cus.net/dvinfo/Video05-1280x533.avi My hand. More darkness. More noise. I'll record something better tomorrow. So... As I said, I'm looking for another solution. In fact I'm looking for two different solutions: - One would be a 1" sensor (or 36x24mm to match exactly a 35mm frame) able to deliver 1280x720p at 24fps. In fact the Pike camera (with a 1" ccd) does it and delivers full HD but it's $5000 - The other one would be a smaller chip (about 1/2.5" or 1/2"... or even 1/3") but able to deliver 2k or full HD at 24fps so I can add an adapter. If anyone knows about something like that... |
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#63 |
Major Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Amsterdam The Netherlands
Posts: 200
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Hello Jose,
Your clips show good promise, I didn't find it too noisy. I myself am working with the Pike. It does not handle full frame HD @ 24fps. The firewire bandwidth is the limitation. Currently It can handle 1800 x 750 @ 24fps, 14 bit (transfered as 16 bits) pixels. It will do full HD at 8 bit per pixel I guess. I have heard that they will release new firmware this month that does packed 12 bit transfers. So that it will do 2048 * 854 @ 24fps, 12 bit. There is a Pike that has a 2048 x 2048 1.2" sensor, I myself have the 1920 x 1080 1" sensor. Currently my Pike has a noise problem that I am not yet investigating. I am confident that I can get rid of it somehow (cooling, battery power, electrical isolation). But I need to get the software of high enough quality first. |
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#64 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sevilla (Spain)
Posts: 439
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I supose the 1/2" version will cost more than $2000 too and it will also have those noise problems you mention. I thought CCDs were better than CMOS handling noise.
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#65 |
Trustee
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Niagara Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,121
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Wow, I thought the video looked great. Nice job!
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#66 |
Major Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Amsterdam The Netherlands
Posts: 200
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Hello Jose,
I think CMOS actually handles noise better as it can handle much lower light conditions. It only becomes a problem with very large shutter times (30 minutes) and very low light like in telescopes. But I am not sure what is going on in my camera. First there is some static noise (non uniformity of the pixels), strange thing is it doesn't seem to go away with a simple flat field calibration. Also there is some weird non linearity going on, which shows up in the waveform as dark stripes. At first I thought it was an error in my part, or some weird LUT (which are disabled), but they are different from the left and right part (the sensor is divided through the center) which means the non linearity is caused before the AD converter. It seems to only show in the dark part of the image, so it could be the non linearity of the transistors in the amplifier, maybe with the bias I can skip above this non linearity part. All-in-all, there is a lot to figure out. Cheers, Take |
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#67 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sevilla (Spain)
Posts: 439
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I've just been contacted by Omnivision. They'll send me a demo board in a few days.
Take, I know this can be too obvious but, have you thought about the possibility of your camera being damaged? |
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#68 |
Major Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Amsterdam The Netherlands
Posts: 200
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Hello Jose,
It could be a possibility, I have thought of this, but I thought that normal sensor data would look pretty bad without calibration. I will have to contact the support department with some of the images I have taken. Cheers, Take |
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#69 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sevilla (Spain)
Posts: 439
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Well... You can see it's not true. As I said, the clips I posted were completely untouched. I didn't even use the internal white balance included with the camera.
I've also seen images taken with other Alliedvision cameras and they don't look bad at all. |
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#70 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sevilla (Spain)
Posts: 439
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Hey... Alliedvision has the Marlin F-131C with a 2/3" GLOBAL SHUTTER color CMOS sensor delivering 720P at 25fps. That's the sensor size of the SI-2k Mini. It's not 2k, but it's HD, global shutter and it doesn't need an adaptor to get a very nice DOF. You can add a C to F mount converter if you want.
It also has less pixels than the SI-2k with the same size. That means more light, less noise... and for 900euro! The only bad point I see is that it doesn't deliver full HD. |
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#71 | |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Woodstock, Georgia
Posts: 154
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Quote:
Not very good color performance, but global shutter and shallow DOF are a plus. |
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#72 | |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 36
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Quote:
Edit: Never mind, I guess digikey sells them. |
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#73 | |
Inner Circle
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,762
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Quote:
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#74 | |
Inner Circle
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,762
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Quote:
Now, here is the rub with the Ibis5a cameras, do it wrong and you land up with an worse sensor, do it right and you land up with an better camera, problem is many seem to do it cheaply, without good external Analogue to Digital converter, and other external support circuits they put in the Drake version. But the problem with the research, was that I was in too much ill health to do the research for everybody, who were more than prepared to be erratic and not do much research. Even getting good camera companies to do the simple software changes to enable video streaming and control would have been good. If we had all gotten together and done the research consistently we would have been TEN times further on, cheaper price/better camera. Sumix was going to make an cheap camera for us, but we let them down and ran after Silicon Imaging, Micron and Altasens, that only delayed us for years and gave us cameras at 4-6 times the price, and Sumix let us down and went away. Now we have Elphel, and I have got to admit, I am less than cinematically appealed to it, it is community only, and everybody keeps disappearing from it and alternative projects keep turning up. We will get what we deserve. We really need to pull together to get an company to support us. Having said all this, here are the simple options, under $500 webcam+optical adaptor. Under $2K Elphel, or HD camera plus Intensity HDMI/Component. Red is coming out with an cheaper camera. As Sumix is no longer interested, why not ask Silicon Imaging about an cheap Ibis5a/new 1/2inch Altasens/Kodak/hopefully not Micron 720p, camera based on their cineform Digital Cinema POV, for $1000+ (you supply computer/hard drives). Such an camera, based on an improved version of their Ibis5 camera, can't hope to compete with the top end Altasens, so they can afford to cut us an break, and sell it as an industrial camera too. Of course, it could be GigE direct to hard disk. The Ibis and I think, new altasens, offers latitude extension technologies, however, it is preferable to be able to do at least 50fps 100% shutter for transfer between different media formats, which is where the Ibis and many others fall over. |
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#75 | |
Inner Circle
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,762
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Quote:
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