New DIY HD Cinema Camera Project

[Les Dit]

Digital Bolex.

Thoughts ?

[Bob Hart]

It seems like the digital Bolex might be a case of SI2K, A-Cam digital, Kinor, the new as yet unreleased Chinese offering and other "Super16mm" sized sensor cameras revisited, albeit in a smaller cute retro package.

The pistol grip photo-sniper form factor of 8mm/Super8mm film cameras was initially embraced by early generations of consumer video cams but is an ergonomic deadend for the more serious practitioner unless the handle is detachable and a tripod mount somewhere under the body and not on the handle.

Super16mm digital cinema cams have already been forced into niche zones by the 35mm and Super35mm format sensor cameras.

My imagining is that at best, the digital Bolex may pioneer its own additional niche market at the right price point but I don't see volume of sales generating economies of scale to bring the costs down to an affordable "consumer novelty" level.

Interesting concept though. I vaguely recall that way back in 2002 or thereabouts, the SI2K kicked off in a forum here on dvinfo as a hypothetical of stripping out a K3 16mm film camera and substituting a CMOS sensor and computer hardware within the camera casework.

[Dan Hudgins]

I posted the third test reel for the KineRAW-S8p (tm).

It stutters a bit from the Vimeo playback on my Brother's computer, and there are some spots left behind in the scrolling titles from the compression it seems, but you get the general idea of what shooting at f/0.95 with a 2:1 squeeze lens gets you,

KineRAW-S8p (tm) anamorphic 2K (1828x1556) lens test reel C1 on Vimeo

Yea, there is no substitute for using a real anamorphic lens to get those great flare effects. I was using the ElmoScope-II anamorphic adapter on a Bolex H16 with a mounting plate held onto the turret , but the low resolution of 16mm movie film did not bring out the fine details like the KineRAW-S8p ™ can in part because film has so much grain and un-steadiness, the KineRAW-S8p ™ worked great for the two composite shots since there is zero regeneration error.

Lots more features and lenses to test in the KineRAW-S8p ™ like 1920×1440 for 4:3 in Black and White (someone in Europe was asking about that), and 220fps slow motion etc.

==

You can check the spec sheets for the sensors, but I think that the stated digital Bolex sensor has about 1 T/ stop less dynamic range than the KineRAW-S8p (tm) sensor, more similar to the Acam dII (tm) sensor also made by Kodak (tm) (which seems to have sold off its sensor division?).

I hope to show that more with a softer grade in some future demo videos etc.

[Dan Hudgins]

I posted some new photos of the KineRAW-S8p (tm) in this thread here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...-8000-a-4.html

The system will not let me post them in this thread, so you need to click to that thread to read the test of that post and see the five new images.

Has anyone heard from Jose (person starting this DIY camera thread for a camera like the KineRAW (tm))? I was talking to him by email some time ago, but have not gotten a reply in a while.

==

With regard to the digital Bolex (tm) question above, I think the KineRAW-S8p (tm) sensor is rated at about 1 T/ stop more dynamic range than the Kodak sensor used in the digital Bolex (tm), the Kodak sensors have 4 readouts and so need good FPN masking to not show the four way split, the KineRAW-S8p (tm) sensor has one readout, so there are no split quadrant artifacts even without black calibration or temp drift in the sensor, it seems.

I wish them well and hope they can deliver their camera, but the KineRAW-S8p (tm) offeres a different look, maybe less brittle and softer film like depending on the de-Bayer processing method, such as using EDR for Extended Dynamic Range in my free de-Bayer program etc.

[Dan Hudgins]

I posted the fourth Vimeo video, D1, showing some hand held footage made with the KineRAW-S8p (tm), you can read my text on that video's page for more information about how it was done and the 1920x817 crop from 1920x1440 shooting mode used.

KineRAW-S8p (tm) handheld (1920x817) Kowa 3.5mm lens test reel D1 on Vimeo

[Shem Kerr]

I like Dan's video quality; the color richness; etc. The Kineraw-S8p may have a lot going for it compared to the competition. I wish it well. But please, that's double posting, and off topic here.

Now this is a new development; and has the potential to include DIY; and is a Cinema Camera project: Announcing the Apertus Open-Source Cinema Project | Dynamic Perception

[Damian Heffernan]

Originally Posted by Shem Kerr

I like Dan's video quality; the color richness; etc. The Kineraw-S8p may have a lot going for it compared to the competition. I wish it well. But please, that's double posting, and off topic here.

Now this is a new development; and has the potential to include DIY; and is a Cinema Camera project: Announcing the Apertus Open-Source Cinema Project | Dynamic Perception

I wouldn't say new as that one's been going on for years. It's also showing it's age now by being 5 megapixel and so newer cameras have left it far behind.

[Shem Kerr]

We can excuse Damian if he's gone to sleep on this one, as the Apertus Project has seemed to be in a holding pattern for quite some time. However, what's new is the development, over on the link supplied and also on the Apertus Project website: new hardware partner; the plan now appears to be to make a 4K S35p cinema camera with raw sensor data recorded from a12MP APS-C global shutter sensor ( the same one as in the Kineraw S35p); and a new post-production suite. Sure, by the time it gets produced it will have been so called bettered. Dan's video on the S8p is plenty good enough for me . 4K S35p with hardware and software upgradibility is plenty future proof; and the ease with which it might be customized by DIY sounds fun. Again on the niggles side: will it scream like a jet engine; or can it be cooled silently? Will it be prone to fill with dust? Or whatever else problems.

[Dan Hudgins]

The reason I was posting in this thread was that it was started by Jose some years ago to make a raw recording digital cinema camera with several sensor sizes, which is what Kinefinity.com (tm) has done.

I was talking to Jose as well as to Kinefinity.com (tm) and OptimaCine.com (tm) about making such a camera for a low cost solution.

Before that I was interested in developing a public domain (no strings unlike Apertus (tm)) design for a digital cinema camera much like what Jose was talking about, so I got in contact with him to see if I could add software support for his camera project in the DI system I was developing and in the de-Bayer software I was developing to support Acam dII (tm) as well as the Kinefinity.com (tm) and OptimaCine.com (tm) cameras.

If Apertus (tm) wants to take over this thread, and why exactly since Jose knew about their 8bit compressed camera and it seems wanted to develop a true RAW recording alternative, then I can't stop them.

But the point of this thread was to have a low cost True RAW recording digital cinema camera available for people to shoot with and if Apertus (tm) is going to make an 8bit compressed recording camera what does it have to do with Jose's original reason for starting this thread?

[Shem Kerr]

I am not Apertus. Sorry to mention a true raw 8 10 or 12 bit, 2k or 4k, free to DIY cinema camera project that Jose could take hardware or software ideas from or add such to. Love it or hate it, the Apertus project is right now the closest DIY possible thing to what Jose described in the OP; and is not "an 8bit compressed recording camera".