New DIY HD Cinema Camera Project

[Jamie Varney]

Jose I just sent you two more emails from two different address, I hope you at least get one of them.

Steven we can never have enough minds working on a single problem, do you happen to have any experience with FPGA's?

I am thinking of starting a new thread and maybe a website/blog about this project just to keep everything in order. What do you guys think?

[Steven Mingam]

I think you are replying to me, no ?
If you consider as fpga experience programming four years ago a 4-bits multiplier that do 3x3 = 12, then yes. I'm a little more high level software guy (and we need that kind of software ;)) but i'm trying to learn vhdl, it has always interested me... (and MIT has some nice online courses). I'll do it alone if needed, but if i can get help for the fpga part while helping on the software side, it will speed up things.

[Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn]

Jose, can you send me your contact info?

I have some people in Madrid quite interested about helping ( and believe me, they know the stuff)

[Jamie Varney]

Sorry Stephen I got the names mixed up while replying, I was talking to you. My experience with FPGA's is limited to a class I took 5 years ago where we made an LED Blink:-(

Anyway the other developer (Bootstrap) and I have been doing some research on FPGA's and I think we are about to settle on this dev board as a base: http://www.altera.com/products/devki...yc2-2C20N.html From there we are going to build a daughter card and integrate some of the IPcore from OpenCores.org to make everything work.

There is a lot more to it then this, but that is the gist of it. Let me know what you think.

[Steven Mingam]

So you're going for the concurrent, i chose Xilinx and this board, which is reasonably priced, powerfull (almost overkill, but that leave room for experiment) and, very important for me, very small... You can actually directly use the board once the development is finished.

edit : aww, your board is nice also, sound and SD Card socket (and IDE ?) ... but no ethernet ?? but optional micron sensor !!
The choice is hard...

[Jamie Varney]

That is a nice board but I think that the Altera board will be able to handle what we need.

[Serge Victorovich]

For information:
Xilinx Spartan-3E FPGAs enable JVC's GY-HD250

[Jose A. Garcia]

Ok, there've been lots of different posts.

First, Jamie and Steven, I want to be part of everything involving this project. I'm no programmer, but if you three need help with anything, just ask. And of course, keep me updated please.

Juan, you didn't enable your PM option. Please, PM me about those people in Madrid.

I'll create the blog for the project. I'll post an url soon.

[Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn]

Jose, My PM has been disabled by an Administrator and....mmm.. I don't really know why....
May be you can send it to Steven and he will give it to me
Or better, my email is fiebelk at hotmail dot com

Something simillar happened to me at REDuser forum.
I get a legal account but never recieved an email for confirming it, so I have an account but I cannot post. Nice isn't it?

[Wayne Morellini]

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia

Yes, the Foveon is one of the best sensors out there but, is it affordable?

I don't know if you've seen the development kit for that sensor but it includes a P4 computer, a screen and a big box full of different boards including the camera head, the cameralink output and a Nikon F mount. I don't think we can afford it.

Have you asked for a quotation?

Maybe upscaling a Foveon 720p image we can get to the quality we get with a 2K bayer sensor but, is it really the best solution?

About your email problems, check your ISP's spam filter settings, and your spam folders. There seems to be some PDF exploit lately, an lot of hacked emails are turning up with PDF attachments. I've even had normal dvinfo forwarded messages filtered. However, I also seem to have had some normal emails not coming through, for some reason (maybe some type of server hack?).


Foveon price, probably depends on their manufacturing quantity. Han-vision used to make industrial cameras with Foveon chips, ask if they are doing one for this chip, or an better one. You could ask them how much the cameras would be quantity. They usually use firewire, and even though there is firewire recording stiff out there, you could also ask about recording software. Additionally you could ask them if it is possible to record directly from the camera to hard drive, using the external display port for viewing and external controls. Would make an complete head solution, just add computer.

Lupa should have global shutter as well as Rolling. But 24fps, means 1/24th/s shutter, usually, when film used 1/48th/s. I think for the digital cinema age, 50fps at 1/50th/s looks better and is more universally adjustable. In the original project, 3 years ago, it was too early, because of processing requirements, and screen penetration, but now it is much closer and upcoming in future years.

FPGA, what about doing it on the Elphel, isn't it open, with existing Open core FPGA to work on?

Interesting, if you look at the latitude demonstration advantage on omnivisions home page. I suggest sensors should be checked for these problems, especially the ones with small pixel pads.

[Wayne Morellini]

From another thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....6&postcount=24

There are an number of people on the DIY cinema camera thread combining to do an FPGA solution, and GigE. join forces (if you haven't already) make it also attachable to camera hack of HV20 and other cameras etc.

What I am going to say is in future, but if you create such an circuit what about build on it to make it configurable to most major low end camera and sensor interfaces (GigE, Industrial etc)? This way, anybody in future can extend the circuit and use in many cameras, but being open also be available to commercial companies to extend and use.

If there is enough expertise here, and desire, it is worth working towards, as it would stop us being hamstrung by manufacturers. Making the sensor interface extension part of the design, also makes it Open, and is also desirable.

[Jose A. Garcia]

I feel a little down...

I ran out of things to do for this project.

That's it. We have our solution. Sensor + FPGA connected to a computer or directly to a HDD. Jamie and Steven haven't finished yet (or even started), but the rest of us just have to sit down and wait.

Having started this project myself, I really liked the idea of being the main active part till the end, but I guess this has become a project for everyone in the past two months. And I'm glad for it, but I just can't help feeling a bit down since I cannot be an active part anymore.

Well, anyway, we'll have our own open source 2K camera!

[Steven Mingam]

Ok, i just ordered the board Jamie suggested (well, too bad for the lack of ethernet, but let's have a recording solution first) and see what we can do with that. A proper raw 640x480 camera would be a good start ;)

Jose, there is things you can do, as a film maker, and not a tech guy. Like designing what would be a good interface, what kind of workflow would be acceptable, etc.
Or find a suitable manufacturer that can provide in very small number PCBs for some more integrated prototypes than dev board, once the FPGA software is done.

[Jose A. Garcia]

You're right Seven. There're lots of things to do yet.

I've got a new quote for a 3.5" board with a Core2Duo 1,8Ghz and 512Mb of RAM already installed. It's $786,43 each.

I'm asking for another two with 1Gb and 2Gb of RAM.

The board is the one we found after the LS-371, the 3301880.

http://www.globalamericaninc.com/new...ec2.php?id=845

The workflow is simple. If we can get to full 2K, perfect. I know the Micron sensor can and gives more than 24fps, but for me 2048x858 is ok. Then possibility to choose 1080p and 720p in 16:9 and 2.39:1. Variable framerate but fixed at 24fps by default. Programmable gain, white balance, contrast, gamma... All those controls were already supported with the demo board, but some must be translated to filmmaking formulaes. I mean, using the Micron sensor you must set the shutter time in miliseconds, while in filmmaking you set it in fractions of a second.

Now, recording workflow:

In-board compression must deliver already debayered lossless 2:1 or more (visually lossless may also be an option), so we can use standard parts for the computer. Otherwise we'd have to use 10000rpm disks which are a waste of budget if we consider that a simple SATA 320Gb 7200rpm HDD is quite cheap.

There can be many ways to record the clips from the camera to the editing computer. One could be just a simple firewire/usb connection. Other could be using an external usb HDD. You plug it to the camera and we put a simple button in the interface to dump all selected clips to the external HDD.

Anyway, all people reading this can suggest different options for the interface. Please, keep it simple. Have in mind that this interface will probably be controlled by hand using a touchscreen, so I'm thinking of big buttons to control all common options and maybe a "menu" button to open a new window with all the rest. If we use a widescreen LCD and we shoot in 2.39:1, we have enough space up or down to include a simple menu.

[Jose A. Garcia]

By the way Steven. Why did you choose a dev board without GigE?