New DIY HD Cinema Camera Project

[Jose A. Garcia]

John, it seems that we were both posting at the same time.

Let me tell you it's great to know of other DIY projects. I thought they were all in a standby status (all but the Elphel). I'm looking forward to watching some of your material as well. M73 was also one of the first possible choices for my project and still is if the Micron board doesn't end up working as expected. How's image quality with that camera? Are rolling shutter artifacts very noticeable? Even shooting at 1/48?

Appart from that, let me say I'm very surprised to see everyone that has posted in this thread very interested in the camera but not in the adapter, which I consider the main piece to give filmic look and image quality. I know these cameras give a look and motion feel that's totally different from any other pro (or prosumer) camera just by themselves but for me that's not enough. As I said, I don't consider the achromat/ground glass an add-on. For me they're part of my camera.

Zac: Sound synchronization can be done just like in movies, with a marker. But just in case you're interested in other solutions, one of my first ideas for this project included a mic attached to a MP3 recorder modified to start/stop recording with the camera. You still have to join picture and sound in post but this way you don't have to synchronize.

[Daniel Lipats]

Earlier I shot a short film with the Elphel 333 with external sound and everything went great. I used a digital recorder and a makeshift clapper board.

What I really want is some sort of remote I can plug into the digital recorder with an LED and a push button. Something that sends a beep to the recorder and lights up on camera simultaneously when you hit the button for easier and more precise sync in post.

[Daniel Rudd]

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia

Thanks Daniel,

I'll contact you if I need something but at the time I'm focused on trying to decide what kind of lens to use. By the way, you wouldn't happen to have lens mounts to add to my project would you? I'm trying to decide between Nikon F and Canon FD.

By the way, I know of www.keh.com and I also know eBay is a no-go for lenses but, does anyone know of other sites to buy used photography equipment?

BH Photo has used lenses, a little more pricey, but trustworthy and quick.

[Jose A. Garcia]

Thanks Daniel, I'll take a look.

Today I requested a demo board from Omnivision. One with a 5mp sensor and USB 2.0 interface. I'm waiting for an answer now. I'll let you know what happens.

[Take Vos]

Hello Daniel,

Originally Posted by Daniel Lipats

What I really want is some sort of remote I can plug into the digital recorder with an LED and a push button. Something that sends a beep to the recorder and lights up on camera simultaneously when you hit the button for easier and more precise sync in post.

This is called a "bloop light", it is not used much anymore as everyone is using timecode slates now. But you may be able to find a manufacturer that still makes these.

Cheers,
Take Vos

[Igor Babic]

I have buy all my lenses on ebay. They are all for my Brevis and my home made adapter. All lenses came very quick and are in good condition. I have Nikon 28F2.8, 50F1.4, 85F1.8 i 105F2.5. There is couple of very good sellers on ebay: betteroffblu and shutterblade. There is also another good used lens resurse: adorama. All those are not cheap as your FD. There is always also a few good people that will send you what you pay for. Dont rush as you see good offer. Contact them first. My 85F1.8 cost me like all your four. So if you wanna start cheap yust take 50F1.8 FD. Get away from slow zooms. If you have an adapter and is not Brevis slow zooms are nono. With Canon mount you can always go Nikon with an adapter from FD to Nikon mount. Daniel jetsetmodels site is full of great info on this. Biggest problem in your project is actualy good ground glass and USB speed and monitoring. Here is my comparsion pictures with Canon Ee-S and Brevis. They are done with Canon G7 digital photo. But when you put this adapter on biger camera like Z1, you get vigneting from this gg. So if you can focus (with help of an achromat) on gg, and distance betwen gg and your imaging element is under 10cm you are good to go with Ee-s for start. Here is also picture of my adapters so you can see how can you make case for it.

[Jose A. Garcia]

Thanks for your help with the lenses Igor. I'll start with cheap but fast FD lenses: A 28mm F2.8, a 50mm F1.8 and a 100 F2.8 to change them for something better when I have more money.

I just can't wait to order the demo board!

[Igor Babic]

Personaly, I have give up of doing what you doing. I have just got my self HV20. & Brevis. Exellent combo. I am in a progress of making rail system for hendheld, run&gun, stedicam use with HV20 upside down.(you dont need flip module in your project, just do it like this).
I admire your courage and I will keep my fingers crossed! Good luck with your project! I will keep my eye on your posts.

[Jose A. Garcia]

Hi Igor,

Well, personally I'm way too excited with this project to consider the possibility of giving up. Besides, there's been few obstacles or big problems for now appart, of course, from money.

I supose something will happen. My computer won't be able to capture such big frames at 24fps, grain in the gg will be too noticeable to be acceptable, way too much light loss... I'm not saying this is an easy task. If it was, everyone would be building their own home made cameras, but I'm ready to face those problems. The best thing about my project is that I've got many different options for each part, even for the cmos. If none of the possibilities work, the Elphel is an already working high quality solution, it uses the same micron chip I want for my camera and it's even cheaper than the micron demo board!

Why then spend more money on the board? Well, I guess it's just a matter of testing an unaltered solution and then mould it to do exactly what I want. Windows, possibility of saving configurations and USB interface are also a plus. But I supose if I don't find any real advantages I'll probably end up buying the Elphel. Anyway I want to test the demo board first.

Igor, just curiosity... What made you give up?

[Paul Cascio]

Jose, I was wondering how extensive the manual is for the software,whole setup, or how much technical know how is needed to tweak the chip?

[Jose A. Garcia]

Hi Paul,

Extract from the demo board online manual:

"Several software applications are provided with the demonstration system, which allow the user to display the data from sensor on the host computer, and to change some basic settings of the sensor for evaluation purposes. A Software Development Kit (SDK) is also available for customers who wish to write their own software applications which access the sensor on the Demo System. More information on the software applications and SDK is available in the software installation CD that is distributed with the Demo camera system."

That's all I know for now. Basically you have a program to configure everything, capture and filter sequences and a SDK to create your own apps.

[Jose A. Garcia]

I've got another question:

I need all measures in the adapter to be as accurate as possible, so a 50mm lens gives almost exactly the same field of view as it would in the still camera. I've searched for measures here and in dvxuser.com but I don't know if the ones I found are for canon FD or nikon and if they are correct, cause they vary from 40mm to 42mm or even 45mm.

Is there any way to get a measured canon FD camera blueprint or a datasheet?

Thanks.

[Daniel Schaumberger]

Hi guys,

just a thought.
Wouldnt it be easier to find a solution how to capture the HDMI output from an HV-20 to tape or HDDs or USB-Sticks. The HV-20 isnt that bad.

Something like cineporter did with the HVX200 but due to cheaper prices for the P2 cards the cineporter product is dead.

best regards
Daniel

[Jose A. Garcia]

Well, that's another option but just the camera costs $1200-$1400 depending on the store. Besides that you need to invest more on that HDMI output (I don't know how much would it cost) and also on the adapter to get a final solution that shoots 60i/24f on full HD or DV.

With the Micron board you can even shoot digital cinema 2k (2.39:1) at real progresive 24fps (not "interlaced->progresive simulation half vertical resolution->interlaced again") and you can also get 60fps at 720p and even more at DV resolution. Appart from the fact that you get full RAW 4:4:4 frames.

Besides all that Daniel, you have to know better than anyone the feeling you get when shooting with something you've actually built yourself. That's a very important part of this project.

[Jose A. Garcia]

Ok, so according to wikipedia and for everyone who wants to know, Flange Focal Distance or distance between mount and film (or GG in this case) for canon FD lenses is 42.0mm and 44.0mm for EF lenses.