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#136 | |
Inner Circle
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,762
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#137 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sevilla (Spain)
Posts: 439
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To be honest, Wayne, I didn't understand a thing of what you just said. I increased the frequency, now it goes faster (it reads more times per second) and my biggest concern was if that process could damage the camera in time, at least faster than normal use.
Also I have bad news. I just received an email from Micron. They say they apologize for the mistake but framerate cannot be fixed. I just can't believe it. That basically means the board can't be used to shoot movies. The only way to decrease framerate if it goes faster than 24fps is by decreasing electronic shutter frequency, and that means a more noticeable rolling shutter. In a few weeks I'll have here the Omnivision board for testing but I seriously doubt it's better than the Micron. |
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#138 |
Major Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina
Posts: 444
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I think it would be better for you to start experimenting with an Elphel camera instead of trying any propietary solution out there.
Maybe at first the learning curve may be harder, but seeing how much progress you have obtained up to now I believe it would be the best path. |
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#139 | |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 36
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#140 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sevilla (Spain)
Posts: 439
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Hi Juan,
If you read through the post, you'll see the Elphel has always been one of my options. In fact, the new 353 uses exactly the same 5mp micron sensor I have and you can set the fps you want. There're 3 points I don't really like about the Elphel: - First, it's a complete already made product. - Second, it compresses the image. It does it very well, but even the RAW Jpeg is compressed. You cannot choose to extract a RAW Bayer sequence from it. - Third, and I know this sounds bad, Linux. I've got Windows and OSX Tiger installed in my computer and, if possible, I don't want to need to boot Linux everytime I want to shoot something. In fact, if I have to choose between both systems, I'd choose OSX, cause I'll end up compositing in Shake and editing in Final Cut. Now, I decided I want to stay with the demo board if possible. I really like the image, motion and ease of use so, Take and Steven, if you really want to help this project, what do you need to develop: - A very simple recording tool that can control gain, resolution, shutter, binning, gamma, contrast, clock, white balance... and VERY important, FPS. - A converter from RAW bayer to any usable lossless codec. I'll try to find everything you need. Datasheets, manuals, actual software... I'll record RAW sequences for you. I can test Windows and OSX software here. Anything to get this project done. Just ask. |
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#141 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sevilla (Spain)
Posts: 439
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Here is the first RAW sequence. 159 frames captured in Micron RAW format. It was debayering in real time when capturing (Laroche-Prescott) so I think it will just need RAW decoding. It also has a txt file with all sensor info and settings during the capture. If you need another one in Bayer format, just ask.
I'm also adding another file with all the PDFs that came with the board. All schematics, manuals, datasheets... http://www.cus-cus.net/dvinfo/capture.rar http://www.cus-cus.net/dvinfo/doc.rar (Not active) It's uploading right now. It'll finish in about 10-15 min. Last edited by Jose A. Garcia; July 14th, 2007 at 05:11 AM. |
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#142 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sevilla (Spain)
Posts: 439
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Hey! I also found many C++ code samples! They explain how to program simple capture tools and things like that.
I think I'll just compress the whole Micron CD so you can have everything you need. I'll post a link when it's ready. |
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#143 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sevilla (Spain)
Posts: 439
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#144 | |
Tourist
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4
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I am not getting how this is possible... 1920 x 800 x (4 x 14 / 8) x 24 = 258048000 Bytes/sec or about 246MB/s. The "(4 x 14 / 8)" in the calculation is two Green, one Red and one Blue channel per pixel at 14 bits converted to Bytes. The best sata drives (15K rpm) can sustain about 130MB/s. For regular 7200rpm, about 60-70 is all you can count on. Ivan |
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#145 |
Major Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Amsterdam The Netherlands
Posts: 200
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Hello Ivan,
Your calculation is off by 4; on a bayer sensor the green 1, green 2, blue and red, each occupy a separate pixel, with some fancy interpolation algorithm you can reconstruct all the three color components per pixel. Effectively there is a 1:3 compression ratio. Also, as my own camera has firewire 800 connections my limitations are different. 1800 x 750 x 14bit @ 24fps or 1920 x 800 x 12bit @ 24fps. Actually I could do a little more height in 12 bit or wider with an larger sensor. |
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#146 | |
Tourist
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4
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#147 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 91
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Please, i want to test my debayer algorithm ;)
(in fact, the best would be to have the same sequence in bayer and debayered by micron so i can compare... it might be difficult but there is no point to continue to work on my algorithm if it's bad :)) And for the elphel compressing video, well you could by-pass almost everything but the huffman compression in the FPGA and get lossless bayer compressed video. That's why it's a good start : you got the right hardware and the source of the camera, you just need the skills to modify it a bit. |
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#148 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sevilla (Spain)
Posts: 439
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http://www.cus-cus.net/dvinfo/captureRawBayer.rar
Here it is. RAW and Bayer. Uploading now. May take 10 min or so. |
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#149 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sevilla (Spain)
Posts: 439
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But Steve, wouldn't it be even better if we develop specific software for the demo board? We already have working hardware and the results look better than I thought. We just need to control fps and develop a simple tool to read and convert raw sequences (and even debayer them using the best possible algorithms) and we've got our camera! I mean, there're few cameras out there that can deliver 2k and the image and motion feeling on this one's just great.
We're almost there! |
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#150 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sevilla (Spain)
Posts: 439
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Going back to the optical part of the camera, I'd like to know where to buy very sharp c-mount lenses. Don't get me wrong, I like the soft movielike look the camera has now but when the adaptor is added, the image will pass through 3 lenses (c-mount, achromat and 35mm lens) and the ground glass so if final image is a bit soft I want the 35mm lens to be responsible for that. The rest must be as sharp as possible.
I don't care if the c-mount lens I choose is a second hand one as long as it's very sharp. In fact, it will be much cheaper if it's used. Where can I look for it? |
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