aaaaaaggghhhh the grain the GRAIN! at DVinfo.net

Charles Hurley · March 6th, 2007, 12:31 AM

Remember the first time someone pointed out those boxes around all the ships in Star Wars. Every time you watched the movie after that the space scenes seemed to lose some of their magic. That's about where I am with 35mm adapters right now. When you don't know what to look for they're magic, but when you do.........sorry just venting. Who will deliver us from the tyranny of deep dof?

Donnie Wagner · March 6th, 2007, 09:29 AM

A full frame sensor in an affordable camera. RED has the right idea, eventually we will be able to buy a video camera with a 35mm sensor for under $5K, maybe even less.

So let me change my answer, TIME will deliver us free from grain.

The irony is, once there is no grain, you will be putting it back in with after effects.

Ryan Damm · March 6th, 2007, 09:45 AM

The double irony is: once we get S35 chips, we'll want medium format or large format chips... and then we play the waiting game again.

Ben Winter · March 6th, 2007, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Damm

The double irony is: once we get S35 chips, we'll want medium format or large format chips... and then we play the waiting game again.

I seriously doubt that. If the purpose is to achieve the depth of field and resolution of 35mm that the public is so familiar with, 35mm chips will be as far as the market will go to emulate it.

Benjamin Richardson · March 6th, 2007, 06:11 PM

we will always want something more

Chris Barcellos · March 6th, 2007, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Damm

The double irony is: once we get S35 chips, we'll want medium format or large format chips... and then we play the waiting game again.

I don't agree. Medium format becomes so touchy regarding close focusing, you'd have a harder time yet. 35mm is that just right place, I think.

Alex Chong · March 6th, 2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie Wagner

A full frame sensor in an affordable camera. RED has the right idea, eventually we will be able to buy a video camera with a 35mm sensor for under $5K, maybe even less.

So let me change my answer, TIME will deliver us free from grain.

The irony is, once there is no grain, you will be putting it back in with after effects.

If you are speaking from a point of view of a film maker or serious videographer, you are right. I think sooner or later, some of the major camcorder manufacturer will hitch a ride on the DOF wagon and produce a camcorder with 35mm sensor but it being affordable may be a question mark. It is after all a small segment of the market that the DOF camcorder is targeting.

I believe, camcorder manufacturers will concentrate on HD format more and more but keeping the sensor size down. The siz eof sensor may go up but who knows when. Just my opinion on this issue.

Ryan Damm · March 6th, 2007, 07:01 PM

Perhaps it's because of IMAX, but there's at least one 65mm-sized chip camera out there:

http://www.visionresearch.com/index....=camera_65_new

And while I agree that focus gets touchy with MF, I don't agree that it's something people wouldn't want.

For example, I want it. And if someone had an affordable digital 4x5, I'd want that too. Remember: sometimes technology precedes taste, and the viewing public can catch up. There's nothing wrong with making an image that's different from what's been done before, after all.

(I guess this doesn't nullify the idea that the 35mm size is a particularly market-driven sweet-spot, but hey - I can dream, can't I?)

Jon Wolding · March 6th, 2007, 07:23 PM

If your average consumer wants deep DOF on a cam with a full frame chip... crop the chip and voila! Also, you could capture with the full chip and live downrez to DV for "Cine shDOF". The future looks bright.

Michael Maier · March 7th, 2007, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Hurley

Remember the first time someone pointed out those boxes around all the ships in Star Wars. Every time you watched the movie after that the space scenes seemed to lose some of their magic.

What boxes?

Rob LaPoint · March 7th, 2007, 05:23 AM

I think most people will be happy when 35mm sized chips are more affordable. However, then we will all want 35mm chips capable of recording full HDRI, then we are going to want two chip two lens setups that with an onboard processor are capable of full 3d imagine and auto-rotoscoping. Or perhaps that micro-lens setup that made news a year ago that could capture images and choose the focus plane later. There is always more, but we should all be happy that we live in a very exciting time, we all thought DV was a revolution and I have a feeling we ain't seen nothin yet!

Charles Hurley · March 8th, 2007, 12:29 AM

Word to that Rob. The technology has gone crazy in the last few years. Firewire was the first quantum leap, if you'll pardon the phrase. I think the 35mm adapter is alagous to the video toaster. It's somewhere in between where we are and where we're going, but in a few years will be long forgotten.

P.S. I am sorry about the box thing, I never wanted to be the one to tell anyone there's no easter bunny.

Marcus Marchesseault · March 11th, 2007, 07:35 AM

The first time I saw Star Wars, the matte boxes around ships were shields.

March 6th, 2007, 12:31 AM	#1
Charles Hurley Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 128	aaaaaaggghhhh the grain the GRAIN! Remember the first time someone pointed out those boxes around all the ships in Star Wars. Every time you watched the movie after that the space scenes seemed to lose some of their magic. That's about where I am with 35mm adapters right now. When you don't know what to look for they're magic, but when you do.........sorry just venting. Who will deliver us from the tyranny of deep dof?

March 6th, 2007, 09:45 AM	#3
Ryan Damm Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 46	Also.... The double irony is: once we get S35 chips, we'll want medium format or large format chips... and then we play the waiting game again.

March 6th, 2007, 07:01 PM	#8
Ryan Damm Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 46	65mm cameras already exist Perhaps it's because of IMAX, but there's at least one 65mm-sized chip camera out there: http://www.visionresearch.com/index....=camera_65_new And while I agree that focus gets touchy with MF, I don't agree that it's something people wouldn't want. For example, I want it. And if someone had an affordable digital 4x5, I'd want that too. Remember: sometimes technology precedes taste, and the viewing public can catch up. There's nothing wrong with making an image that's different from what's been done before, after all. (I guess this doesn't nullify the idea that the 35mm size is a particularly market-driven sweet-spot, but hey - I can dream, can't I?)

March 7th, 2007, 05:23 AM	#11
Rob LaPoint Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Pavilion, USA Posts: 64	I think most people will be happy when 35mm sized chips are more affordable. However, then we will all want 35mm chips capable of recording full HDRI, then we are going to want two chip two lens setups that with an onboard processor are capable of full 3d imagine and auto-rotoscoping. Or perhaps that micro-lens setup that made news a year ago that could capture images and choose the focus plane later. There is always more, but we should all be happy that we live in a very exciting time, we all thought DV was a revolution and I have a feeling we ain't seen nothin yet! __________________ Whatever works

March 6th, 2007, 09:29 AM	#2
Donnie Wagner Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 135	A full frame sensor in an affordable camera. RED has the right idea, eventually we will be able to buy a video camera with a 35mm sensor for under $5K, maybe even less. So let me change my answer, TIME will deliver us free from grain. The irony is, once there is no grain, you will be putting it back in with after effects.

March 6th, 2007, 06:11 PM	#5
Benjamin Richardson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 143	we will always want something more

March 6th, 2007, 07:23 PM	#9
Jon Wolding Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 195	If your average consumer wants deep DOF on a cam with a full frame chip... crop the chip and voila! Also, you could capture with the full chip and live downrez to DV for "Cine shDOF". The future looks bright.

March 8th, 2007, 12:29 AM	#12
Charles Hurley Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 128	Word to that Rob. The technology has gone crazy in the last few years. Firewire was the first quantum leap, if you'll pardon the phrase. I think the 35mm adapter is alagous to the video toaster. It's somewhere in between where we are and where we're going, but in a few years will be long forgotten. P.S. I am sorry about the box thing, I never wanted to be the one to tell anyone there's no easter bunny.

March 11th, 2007, 07:35 AM	#13
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	The first time I saw Star Wars, the matte boxes around ships were shields.