Letus35A flip vs the others at DVinfo.net

Giovanni Speranza · January 11th, 2007, 09:26 AM

I'm very confused.
There are 2 issues that concerns me more: grain and focus.
I need an adapter that lets no glass grain in and that can really focus on things. Almost all the footage i see out there is trash. There is no focus. Everything is out of focus.
So is it possible to know if there is an adapter that is able to focus almost perfectly?
Is the Letus35 the answer?
Thanks

Ram Shani · January 11th, 2007, 11:44 AM

hi

i Owen the letus35 Fe and let me say its a great toll i had no problems with focus and grain is minimum( i like the look of it) most of what you see is on low compression so its hard to say let me say that for me working with it and the z-1 was great the director will never work without it!!!

the videos are broadcast on the music Chanel and look great to!!!!

i work with canon FD lenses

Giovanni Speranza · January 11th, 2007, 03:21 PM

What i really don't understand is why is the grain visible if the glass is moving....

Stephen Lee · January 12th, 2007, 03:58 PM

As a new owner of a Letus 35 and with friends who own other adapters, and having gone through the research process, here is my opinion. You're asking too much from what is already a "workaround" or "modification". These adapters are basically "homemade" - especially the Letus. Quyen - one guy - makes them at his home (as far as I can tell).

You are screwing a tube in front of a prosumer camera that already has "just good" glass (compared to pro Fujinon lenses, etc. - price those out for fun). Then, you are screwing on 35mm SLR lenses, probably used. In the middle is groundglass, on to which the image is projected. Do we not expect some light loss? Some softening? Some grain? What my friends and I who use these realized, is that an adapter gives "a look". And you either like that "look" and want that "look" or you don't. IMO, video is too sharp - too clear. I like the adapter look. In fact, I love it!

What you really want, sounds like, is to shoot with a Panavision 35mm camera. Or a Varicam or a Cinealta. You can rent all those things (for a hefty sum). Or you can buy a Letus for $350, screw it in front of a DVX and run around all day having fun. If you want a perfect, super sharp, grain free picture with controllable DOF - that's easy. You just need lots of money.

So much footage is posted (see dvxuser.com). You can see all the different adapters (the Brevis is very good). But what I came to realize is the only way to really understand what these adapters are all about is to get one. If you're serious about video, a $350-$1000 investment shouldn't be a risk. You can always sell it as there is a huge market. I recommend you buy and try.

p.s. The Letus took a month of "fixing" before it worked right and dust free. See many threads about that here and on dvxuser.com. But, I am happy with it now. See some stills here:

http://www.flickr.com/gp/65712140@N00/S23LOZ

John Benton · January 12th, 2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giovanni Speranza

What i really don't understand is why is the grain visible if the glass is moving....

Partially this depends on the shutter speed and frame rate. I have yet to recognize visible grain on the Letus (I use the Letus35XL flip on a canon XL-H1)
That is pretty fantastic !
Even on the M2 I seem often to be able to see the Ground Glass on stills that people post.
I haven't tried the Brevis, but Quyen has made a briliant product !
(and the image can Flip)

Bob Hart · January 12th, 2007, 10:27 PM

Diffused grain or soft freckles in the image can be attributed to a groundglass in some circumstances where shutter speeds are unrealistically fast or the design employs a small movement.

When operating groundglass devices which use a small movement, the groundglass "grain" may become apparent as a soft, fixed pattern blemish, sometimes described as a "film of grain" which is seen in brightly lit out-of-focus areas or plain bright areas like sky or painted walls during camera moves.

If you enlarge the image on a frame grab you may find each "soft" grain occupies an area of 16 to 64 pixels or thereabouts.

Moving grain which is relatively sharp and defined and presents itself in all soft areas, light or dark, is more likely to be electronic noise from the camera imager and system. This "sharp" grain will occupy pixel areas of between 4 and 16.

It is something which is always there, normally hidden in the small detail and texture of an image shot direct-to-camera where the image remains relatively sharp across the whole focal range. It becomes more apparent when you up the gain in low light conditions.

With adaptors, you are seeing more and much larger soft out-of-focus areas in the image for the first time. Any electronic noise in the image will no longer be concealed in the detail.

Shoot an image containing high contrasts and large uniformly out of focus areas with the groundglass motor turned off. Study the soft areas closely and you may well see some moving grain in there. Now how can that be with the groundglass not moving?

I can't vouch for my observations as being scientifically pure as artifacts might get into the mix through added steps in the frame grabbing and move to another still-image software.

Giovanni Speranza · January 24th, 2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Lee

p.s. The Letus took a month of "fixing" before it worked right and dust free.[/url]

Ough! This is no good news. Was this an issue of the earlier models or they are still shipping them with such problems... and what were the problems? dust? glow?
As i'm not good at hand works, could i damage it trying to clean it?
And finally why paying 700$ for a lens that isn't useable unless you disassemble, clean and reassemble in a humidity and dust free environment?

Stephen Lee · January 24th, 2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giovanni Speranza

Ough! This is no good news. Was this an issue of the earlier models or they are still shipping them with such problems... and what were the problems? dust? glow?
As i'm not good at hand works, could i damage it trying to clean it?
And finally why paying 700$ for a lens that isn't useable unless you disassemble, clean and reassemble in a humidity and dust free environment?

Yes, you can damage it easily. I sent mine back and Quyen fixed it up. Even now, I had a black dust speck on my last shoot (you never see these until you get home and post it on your TV). So, I had to open it up and air dust it. It's very hard to find out exactly which surface the problem is on and it's scary, cuz you can definitley make things worse, too. Again, my model is the $350 one, so I can't speak to the Flip model.

There are many adapters out there that people use regularly with GREAT results. I don't know another way to get DOF control at this price point, so you either have to get some cash and dive in, or else fuggedaboutit. I dove in, and although it isn't magic or instant or perfect (what is in filmmaking - no one is every satisfied with the 'quality' of their rig it seems), you can make it work if you're careful and lucky. Or again, you can always just spend a lot of money and skip the luck part. : )

Here are some stills from the last shoot with the Letus35a and a DVX100, black dust speck and all. If you want to play "Where's Waldo?", the black speck is in the upper right corner. Visible on shots where the background is lit and flat.

http://www.flickr.com/gp/65712140@N00/4z2vo5

Giovanni Speranza · January 25th, 2007, 08:04 AM

So my question: for $1500 what adapter would you recommend for best quality, best focus, cleanest image?

January 11th, 2007, 09:26 AM	#1
Giovanni Speranza Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Lugano, Switzerland Posts: 149	Letus35A flip vs the others I'm very confused. There are 2 issues that concerns me more: grain and focus. I need an adapter that lets no glass grain in and that can really focus on things. Almost all the footage i see out there is trash. There is no focus. Everything is out of focus. So is it possible to know if there is an adapter that is able to focus almost perfectly? Is the Letus35 the answer? Thanks

January 12th, 2007, 03:58 PM	#4
Stephen Lee New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 22	adapters As a new owner of a Letus 35 and with friends who own other adapters, and having gone through the research process, here is my opinion. You're asking too much from what is already a "workaround" or "modification". These adapters are basically "homemade" - especially the Letus. Quyen - one guy - makes them at his home (as far as I can tell). You are screwing a tube in front of a prosumer camera that already has "just good" glass (compared to pro Fujinon lenses, etc. - price those out for fun). Then, you are screwing on 35mm SLR lenses, probably used. In the middle is groundglass, on to which the image is projected. Do we not expect some light loss? Some softening? Some grain? What my friends and I who use these realized, is that an adapter gives "a look". And you either like that "look" and want that "look" or you don't. IMO, video is too sharp - too clear. I like the adapter look. In fact, I love it! What you really want, sounds like, is to shoot with a Panavision 35mm camera. Or a Varicam or a Cinealta. You can rent all those things (for a hefty sum). Or you can buy a Letus for $350, screw it in front of a DVX and run around all day having fun. If you want a perfect, super sharp, grain free picture with controllable DOF - that's easy. You just need lots of money. So much footage is posted (see dvxuser.com). You can see all the different adapters (the Brevis is very good). But what I came to realize is the only way to really understand what these adapters are all about is to get one. If you're serious about video, a $350-$1000 investment shouldn't be a risk. You can always sell it as there is a huge market. I recommend you buy and try. p.s. The Letus took a month of "fixing" before it worked right and dust free. See many threads about that here and on dvxuser.com. But, I am happy with it now. See some stills here: http://www.flickr.com/gp/65712140@N00/S23LOZ __________________ www.bionicpix.com

January 11th, 2007, 11:44 AM	#2
Ram Shani Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: tel aviv israel Posts: 107	hi i Owen the letus35 Fe and let me say its a great toll i had no problems with focus and grain is minimum( i like the look of it) most of what you see is on low compression so its hard to say let me say that for me working with it and the z-1 was great the director will never work without it!!! the videos are broadcast on the music Chanel and look great to!!!! i work with canon FD lenses

January 11th, 2007, 03:21 PM	#3
Giovanni Speranza Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Lugano, Switzerland Posts: 149	What i really don't understand is why is the grain visible if the glass is moving....

January 12th, 2007, 10:27 PM	#6
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Diffused grain or soft freckles in the image can be attributed to a groundglass in some circumstances where shutter speeds are unrealistically fast or the design employs a small movement. When operating groundglass devices which use a small movement, the groundglass "grain" may become apparent as a soft, fixed pattern blemish, sometimes described as a "film of grain" which is seen in brightly lit out-of-focus areas or plain bright areas like sky or painted walls during camera moves. If you enlarge the image on a frame grab you may find each "soft" grain occupies an area of 16 to 64 pixels or thereabouts. Moving grain which is relatively sharp and defined and presents itself in all soft areas, light or dark, is more likely to be electronic noise from the camera imager and system. This "sharp" grain will occupy pixel areas of between 4 and 16. It is something which is always there, normally hidden in the small detail and texture of an image shot direct-to-camera where the image remains relatively sharp across the whole focal range. It becomes more apparent when you up the gain in low light conditions. With adaptors, you are seeing more and much larger soft out-of-focus areas in the image for the first time. Any electronic noise in the image will no longer be concealed in the detail. Shoot an image containing high contrasts and large uniformly out of focus areas with the groundglass motor turned off. Study the soft areas closely and you may well see some moving grain in there. Now how can that be with the groundglass not moving? I can't vouch for my observations as being scientifically pure as artifacts might get into the mix through added steps in the frame grabbing and move to another still-image software.

January 25th, 2007, 08:04 AM	#9
Giovanni Speranza Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Lugano, Switzerland Posts: 149	So my question: for $1500 what adapter would you recommend for best quality, best focus, cleanest image?