Redrock, Brevis, SGPro Shootout

Greg Bates · January 27th, 2007, 06:10 PM

I don't know brother but Phil started this thread weeks ago, and there are people on here waiting, salavating like their very creative lives depend on it. Its kind of...I don't know annoying...like damn if you don't own one get one and shoot something. If you don't like it sell it and get a different one just because I like the Brevis means squat, some people don't like the M2 but DP's on 24 sure liked it.

Ing Poh Hii · January 28th, 2007, 12:18 PM

Hi Phil, did I miss out something ? I see only one picture in the page2 ?? or you are still working on this ?

many thanks

Dennis Hingsberg · January 28th, 2007, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donnie Wagner

What frame size does each of these adapters use? i.e.. full frame being 36X24mm, I remember some adapters have a smaller usable imaging area. Giving you a smaller FOV which is makes getting real wide angle more expensive; Kinda like digital SLR's their smaller sensors.

If these three all use a 36X24mm imaging area, then there is no issue. Just checking.

Can anyone say why it necessary it to use 36x24mm over 24x18mm (such as what the RED CCD sensor uses?)

Phil Bloom · January 28th, 2007, 03:47 PM

all done. hope at least one person finds it useful!!

Best,

Phil

P.S. Watch Channel 4 this friday at 1930. My first doco for the insider goes out. partly shot with the M2

James Collinson · January 28th, 2007, 03:57 PM

Hi Phil,

Not getting anything from page 6 onwards...

Been really looking forward to reading this though - its a tough choice!! Anyone know if there are any adapters avaliable in the classifieds section? I'm not allowed in there yet!

Thanks for your work on this though Phil, and ill remember to tune in for your documentary!

Jim

James Collinson · January 28th, 2007, 03:59 PM

Aww crap, just remembered im in New York this week... ill have to get someone to tape it!

Phil Bloom · January 28th, 2007, 04:03 PM

Do James! It should be available on Channel 4 on demand too.

Check again now...it was probably still publishing. You were probably the first to check!

Phil

Dan Keaton · January 28th, 2007, 05:27 PM

Dear Phil

Nice review. Thank you for all of your efforts.

Dennis Hingsberg · January 28th, 2007, 06:46 PM

Great work Phil, nice to see the finished report!

Looking at the stills you provided it becomes clear that with the Brevis you gain 2 stops over the M2 and you gain 1/2 to 1 full stop with theSGPro over the M2. It seems there's been some speculation as to the amount of light loss by the M2 - now we know for sure!

My favourite image from all the stills you provided is the SGPro 50mm set @ f4 and camera set @ f3.4.

To me this still looks most natural and life like. I have to be honest and say that the M2 also pleases my eye with much of the same natural color reproduction. Although not "exactly" the same I find the SGPro and M2 stills closest to one another and the Brevis images most different from the two.

The Brevis images seem to have a disturbing amount of more color or saturation? It could be a simple matter of preference I suppose.

One question: Why was the field of view wider with the SGpro ?

Thanks, again great work Phil!

Michael Maier · January 28th, 2007, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Bates

I love how people qualify they've never owned something and give qualitative in depth reviews based off of what? I know Michael...we've had these discussions before, i just remember how much you touted the M2 and the G35 against everything being made, and now you're trashing it.

Greg, I think you are talking by the elbows. Please dig the post where I praised the G35. I actually always criticized the hype with no product and I was actually right. Where is it now?
About the M2, it makes good images. If you don't analyze it on a real monitor it's hard to catch the lack of edge to edge sharpness. I was basing my opinion on what I saw online. Now that I have used the M2 extensively I see the real performance and I can and have the right to criticize it. About the Brevis and SGpro I'm just basing it on what I have seen online and on the laws of physics and I clearly state that on my writing. I never claimed to be an expert on Sgpro or Brevis usage. Who said that was a review? Yes, it was a review of the M2 which I have used several times on real world shooting. About the Sgpro and Brevis, it was my personal opinion. So what's your problem?
By the way, the ugly grain pattern I saw on the Brevis high shutter clip wasn't compression artifacts, but whatever. About not adding strain to the lens, I never said it adds strain to the lens. I said it adds strain to the lens mount! Quite a different deal. Of course, you wouldn't know it, you use a fixed lens camera, right?

Dennis Wood · January 28th, 2007, 10:13 PM

First, of all, thanks for putting all that work into your review! Is there any chance of grabbing similar shots using CF3, and your new adapter with new drive/Nikon mount, and adding them in? It would be a great comparison shot if you can reproduce at least the framing again. I'll fire one out to you....you'll like the bokeh.

Phil Bloom · January 29th, 2007, 12:27 AM

Definately Dennis. Would love to try it out.

With regards to the warmer tinge to a couple of the Brevis shots I think that is more to do with some of the shots being a tad over than the Brevis itself making it look warmer. It's only on the F8 setting that it looks warmer, the other adaptors were well under on that fstop.

Phil

Phil Bloom · January 29th, 2007, 12:33 AM

With regards to the field of view being wider...the m2 wasnt that well set up and we zoomed in a bit more than the others as we could see the motor a little. With more time we could have got it a bit wider. The brevis is zoomed in the correct amount to get past the vibrating GG edges and the SGPro actually needed to be zoomed in a bit more as there was a bit of vignetting. But it still is a bit wider, best if Wayne could answer that! Wayne?

Dennis Hingsberg · January 29th, 2007, 06:29 AM

Thanks Phil for your comments. With a little tweak in post I was able to tone down the brevis image down to where the others were - or alternatively tweak the other two a little to where the Brevis was.

Good stuff!

Ing Poh Hii · January 29th, 2007, 07:19 AM

Thank you so much for your quick review and dozen of images.

Now I am in a deeper loop of making a good decision.

Your test has just confirmed what I have been wondered long time:
SGPro is good for outdoor due to the way it handles midtone & exposure better yet Brevis is just the clear winner in low light or indoor situation.

I love the nature light & exposure of SGPro yet I love the versatile and flexibility of Brevis.. I disappoint to SGPro can't make the setup faster with flexible len mount (as I have both Nikon & Canon len) yet I regret Brevis can't keep the explosure & color as nature as possible...

All are lovely products but I have spent too much money over last two months, perhaps I have to clam down myself for another month before I decided to buy in both of them.

Any chance Wayne & Dennis can work together so that Wayne's achromat can fit with to Dennis adapter to achieve greater edge-to-edge sharpness ? Phil, what is your thought in this ?

Thanks a lot again for your lovely review.

January 28th, 2007, 03:47 PM	#124
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	all done. hope at least one person finds it useful!! Best, Phil P.S. Watch Channel 4 this friday at 1930. My first doco for the insider goes out. partly shot with the M2 __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

January 28th, 2007, 04:03 PM	#127
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	Do James! It should be available on Channel 4 on demand too. Check again now...it was probably still publishing. You were probably the first to check! Phil __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

January 28th, 2007, 05:27 PM	#128
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Phil Nice review. Thank you for all of your efforts. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

January 28th, 2007, 06:46 PM	#129
Dennis Hingsberg Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,055	Great work Phil, nice to see the finished report! Looking at the stills you provided it becomes clear that with the Brevis you gain 2 stops over the M2 and you gain 1/2 to 1 full stop with theSGPro over the M2. It seems there's been some speculation as to the amount of light loss by the M2 - now we know for sure! My favourite image from all the stills you provided is the SGPro 50mm set @ f4 and camera set @ f3.4. To me this still looks most natural and life like. I have to be honest and say that the M2 also pleases my eye with much of the same natural color reproduction. Although not "exactly" the same I find the SGPro and M2 stills closest to one another and the Brevis images most different from the two. The Brevis images seem to have a disturbing amount of more color or saturation? It could be a simple matter of preference I suppose. One question: Why was the field of view wider with the SGpro ? Thanks, again great work Phil! __________________ Blog: www.hingsberg.com Ultimate Exposure Guides for FS5/F7S/F5/F55

January 29th, 2007, 12:27 AM	#132
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	Definately Dennis. Would love to try it out. With regards to the warmer tinge to a couple of the Brevis shots I think that is more to do with some of the shots being a tad over than the Brevis itself making it look warmer. It's only on the F8 setting that it looks warmer, the other adaptors were well under on that fstop. Phil __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

January 27th, 2007, 06:10 PM	#121
Greg Bates Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 186	I don't know brother but Phil started this thread weeks ago, and there are people on here waiting, salavating like their very creative lives depend on it. Its kind of...I don't know annoying...like damn if you don't own one get one and shoot something. If you don't like it sell it and get a different one just because I like the Brevis means squat, some people don't like the M2 but DP's on 24 sure liked it.

January 28th, 2007, 12:18 PM	#122
Ing Poh Hii Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kuching, Malaysia Posts: 104	Hi Phil, did I miss out something ? I see only one picture in the page2 ?? or you are still working on this ? many thanks

January 28th, 2007, 03:57 PM	#125
James Collinson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Glasgow, UK Posts: 45	Hi Phil, Not getting anything from page 6 onwards... Been really looking forward to reading this though - its a tough choice!! Anyone know if there are any adapters avaliable in the classifieds section? I'm not allowed in there yet! Thanks for your work on this though Phil, and ill remember to tune in for your documentary! Jim

January 28th, 2007, 03:59 PM	#126
James Collinson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Glasgow, UK Posts: 45	Aww crap, just remembered im in New York this week... ill have to get someone to tape it!

January 28th, 2007, 10:13 PM	#131
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	First, of all, thanks for putting all that work into your review! Is there any chance of grabbing similar shots using CF3, and your new adapter with new drive/Nikon mount, and adding them in? It would be a great comparison shot if you can reproduce at least the framing again. I'll fire one out to you....you'll like the bokeh.

January 29th, 2007, 12:33 AM	#133
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	With regards to the field of view being wider...the m2 wasnt that well set up and we zoomed in a bit more than the others as we could see the motor a little. With more time we could have got it a bit wider. The brevis is zoomed in the correct amount to get past the vibrating GG edges and the SGPro actually needed to be zoomed in a bit more as there was a bit of vignetting. But it still is a bit wider, best if Wayne could answer that! Wayne? __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

January 29th, 2007, 06:29 AM	#134
Dennis Hingsberg Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,055	Thanks Phil for your comments. With a little tweak in post I was able to tone down the brevis image down to where the others were - or alternatively tweak the other two a little to where the Brevis was. Good stuff! __________________ Blog: www.hingsberg.com Ultimate Exposure Guides for FS5/F7S/F5/F55

January 29th, 2007, 07:19 AM	#135
Ing Poh Hii Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kuching, Malaysia Posts: 104	Thank you Phil Thank you so much for your quick review and dozen of images. Now I am in a deeper loop of making a good decision. Your test has just confirmed what I have been wondered long time: SGPro is good for outdoor due to the way it handles midtone & exposure better yet Brevis is just the clear winner in low light or indoor situation. I love the nature light & exposure of SGPro yet I love the versatile and flexibility of Brevis.. I disappoint to SGPro can't make the setup faster with flexible len mount (as I have both Nikon & Canon len) yet I regret Brevis can't keep the explosure & color as nature as possible... All are lovely products but I have spent too much money over last two months, perhaps I have to clam down myself for another month before I decided to buy in both of them. Any chance Wayne & Dennis can work together so that Wayne's achromat can fit with to Dennis adapter to achieve greater edge-to-edge sharpness ? Phil, what is your thought in this ? Thanks a lot again for your lovely review. Last edited by Ing Poh Hii; January 29th, 2007 at 01:22 PM.