Redrock, Brevis, SGPro Shootout

Ing Poh Hii · March 28th, 2007, 05:34 AM

Thank you Chad, yes I have bothered Dennis many times before and I see both Brevis & SGPro are both improving a lot over time, so I will hold down everything until June and see which one give me the best option...

Kind of a sad day to me, I injuried my knee 2 months ago and doctor said I might need a surgery and put some screws into the bone... and I can never play sport anymore...

life is hard, I am just 33...

Chad Terpstra · March 28th, 2007, 06:38 AM

Wow man. That is sad. I feel for you. But there are lots of stories where people prove doctors wrong by a lot of hard work and rehabilitation. So don't give up yet. You may not be able to take it to the max anymore but there's a lot you might be able to do yet.

Ing Poh Hii · March 28th, 2007, 07:32 AM

Thank you very much Chad :).

Yes, I now try to stay positive and make my mind gone away.

20 years ago I've broken my right arm, although I didn't get fully recovered but I still feel a bit lucky as it is my "right" arm... I am a lefthander.. now I got my left knee injury.. perhaps it is my faith to do something else.. mm.. be a good cameraman, the one who can't run.. urh!

Sorry to hijack this interest 35mm adapter topic, I will go quiet for a while...

Thank you everyone in DV forum especially Phil, Ben, Dennis, Danny, Ian & many more who love to see things behind a window frame...

Dennis Hingsberg · March 29th, 2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Winter

As promised, a quick test of the Brevis and Low contrast + ND filter:

This is with Low contrast filter power 5, and a .9 ND Filter
Brevis + FX1, Canon 55mm f1.2 at f5.6:

http://www.frozenphoenixproductions.com/tests/test1.mov

Some may say "but wait! That filter just makes things look washed out." It provides more detail in the shadows and I like it because it provides an image much more keen to color correcting as well as evens out the image for better latitude.

Ben -
Any suspicion as to what is causing the blue fringing on the white highlights of the portion of the frame with the tree?

Ben Winter · March 29th, 2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Hingsberg

Ben -
Any suspicion as to what is causing the blue fringing on the white highlights of the portion of the frame with the tree?

That is chroma aberration caused by the achromat. I just ordered a better one which is on it's way.

Phil Bloom · March 30th, 2007, 03:10 PM

http://web.mac.com/philip.bloom/iWeb...%20Winter.html

Shot mostly on my DSR 450 but also on the HVX 200 with no adaptor.

I get quite a few emails from people asking about which adaptor to get for which camera...I can't really answer that any clearer than in the shootout. But I do think people are thinking it is the solution to getting beautiful pictures. It isn't.

Take a look at the above link then compare it to my "Richmond Lock" short. http://web.mac.com/philip.bloom/iWeb...horts%202.html

Sure, what you get with an adaptor is that lovely shallow DOF but not having one should never stop you producing lovely stuff! Most of the shots in the "Syon House" short are not about shallow DOF but about composition, using exposure, ND, Shutter, white balances (and Matte box) in the best way you are able to. I could have done just about every one of those shots using my z1, or jvc, or HVX etc...all with no adaptor.

I love my adaptors but sometimes you don't have to use them!!

Best,

Phil

Wayne Kinney · March 30th, 2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

Sure, what you get with an adaptor is that lovely shallow DOF but not having one should never stop you producing lovely stuff!

Very well put, I think the idea is very much lost quite easily behind the array of tools available today, including the SGpro. Nothing will look lovely unless shot properly.

Ben Winter · March 30th, 2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

http://web.mac.com/philip.bloom/iWeb...%20Winter.html

Shot mostly on my DSR 450 but also on the HVX 200 with no adaptor.

I get quite a few emails from people asking about which adaptor to get for which camera...I can't really answer that any clearer than in the shootout. But I do think people are thinking it is the solution to getting beautiful pictures. It isn't.

Take a look at the above link then compare it to my "Richmond Lock" short. http://web.mac.com/philip.bloom/iWeb...horts%202.html

Sure, what you get with an adaptor is that lovely shallow DOF but not having one should never stop you producing lovely stuff! Most of the shots in the "Syon House" short are not about shallow DOF but about composition, using exposure, ND, Shutter, white balances (and Matte box) in the best way you are able to. I could have done just about every one of those shots using my z1, or jvc, or HVX etc...all with no adaptor.

I love my adaptors but sometimes you don't have to use them!!

Best,

Phil

Phil, as much as those were beautiful shots I couldn't help but notice the over-sharp "digital" feeling melt away toa more organic film look when the Brevis adapter is used. Maybe that is compression and not the actual footage?

Phil Bloom · March 30th, 2007, 04:58 PM

Watching the short on the screen at full res here and yes it doesn't look quite the same as stuff done using the adaptor but things like sharpness (yes it is sharp, but not too sharp) are all things which can be tweaked in the settings.

Shots like the clouds rolling over the sun can not be acheived with an adaptor due to my using a 20x zoom with 2x extender to get it.

Don't get me wrong I am not knocking adaptors. I will always be first in line to sing their praises, the point I am trying to raise is too many people are thinking it is the answer to making their stuff look better...there are so many things to do first before taking that leap.

Once that leap has been made be prepared to have a steep learning curve because shooting good stuff consistantly on an adaptor is tough. It takes much longer, is much slower and there are so many limitations. Don't forget the cameras out there are all capable of shooting beautiful pictures, as long as you know what you are doing! After all a good stills man can take cracking pics using a cheap digital camera...it's how you use the tools you have!

I use my Brevis a lot to achieve a certain look for some projects. It is a tool for me, like my Matte box is a tool and my Dolly and track is a tool.

By the way, have a look at my Virtual Water piece on my site. I had a lot of fun making it, all done on the XDCAM hd and all post done on final cut pro. I was going to use my Brevis but I just didn't have the time, the shooting schedule was too tight. I am very happy with the end results.

Benjamin Eckstein · April 1st, 2007, 08:11 PM

Phil,
Great work, as always, with Syon footage. Absolutely lovely and beautiful. I think it is inspiring to remember that tools alone do not make for great work.

(That said), with all the tools in your arsenal, why did you shoot that piece on the DSR and not the XDCAM HD? Just curious.

Oh, and despite what I said....tools can be great and fun, and I finally ordered my Brevis yesterday.

B

Phil Bloom · April 2nd, 2007, 02:25 AM

i actually had half hour to do some shots, i was working for a news channel doing a story on early blooms. Had the rushes so decided to cut them together at weekend.

Ben Winter · May 19th, 2007, 01:20 PM

My parents were attending a formal last night and asked me yesterday afternoon to take some pictures of them with their digital camera. The manual control is really quite shoddy as it's one of those cheaper built-in zoom cameras, and I'm used to the control an SLR offers, but I was able to lock down the settings. I shot the first photo with a .9 ND and the Low Contrast filter, and the second with just the ND. The Low contrast filter requires a levels adjustment in post but offers greater latitude. You'll see how with the levels locked down, the Low contrast filter wards off overexposure while still allowing you to expose more for the shadows, like you would with film (instead of exposing for the highlights as you would for video). You see less of this effect with something with already low latitude like HDV but the effect is still there.

Marcus Marchesseault · May 19th, 2007, 09:14 PM

I like the way your father looks in the first shot (with the low contrast filter) and your mother looks better in the second. It has more to do with the pose than the filter, but the overblown highlights seem to have a smoothing effect on the face. The brighter colors in the foliage on the second shot look more appealing. I'm assuming you didn't do any color correction yet on the first shot. Bringing up the mid-high colors would give that nice bright feel from the second shot while retaining the details preserved by the greater contrast. It's amazing the difference of the range between the shots. It's not even an extreme sort of shot as there isn't sky in the background yet the difference is clear. The shadows are brighter and the highlights noticeably darker with the filter.

I have an Ultra Contrast 3 filter on the way as I'm hoping to get some of the latitude improvements the adapter brings at times when I don't have it installed. I also have an interesting idea about how to use a contrast-reducing filter along with the Brevis. I'll let you know if it was a stupid idea or not.

I did not get a Low Contrast 5 filter because I don't have a 4x4 mattebox yet. The best I have is a Cokin filter holder and they don't have any low contrast filters that size. The only thing that even came close was a 72mm Ultra Contrast 3. I'm thinking I will need to add some sort of light diffusion filter to simulate the effect of the ground glass, but I can probably approximate that with a digital filter in post until I work things out.

Phil Bloom · May 28th, 2007, 04:10 PM

http://web.mac.com/philip.bloom/iWeb...f%20crime.html

this is a link to a clip from a short I have recently made using my JVC HD201 and the Brevis 35mm with the new CF3L diffuser.

I have posted an update to my shootout with a few comments on the two new diffusers from Dennis Wood and Cinevate on my shootout page

Jeffrey Butler · May 28th, 2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

http://web.mac.com/philip.bloom/iWeb...f%20crime.html

Good looking stuff, Phil...

March 30th, 2007, 03:10 PM	#276
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	you can shoot nice stuff without an adaptor... http://web.mac.com/philip.bloom/iWeb...%20Winter.html Shot mostly on my DSR 450 but also on the HVX 200 with no adaptor. I get quite a few emails from people asking about which adaptor to get for which camera...I can't really answer that any clearer than in the shootout. But I do think people are thinking it is the solution to getting beautiful pictures. It isn't. Take a look at the above link then compare it to my "Richmond Lock" short. http://web.mac.com/philip.bloom/iWeb...horts%202.html Sure, what you get with an adaptor is that lovely shallow DOF but not having one should never stop you producing lovely stuff! Most of the shots in the "Syon House" short are not about shallow DOF but about composition, using exposure, ND, Shutter, white balances (and Matte box) in the best way you are able to. I could have done just about every one of those shots using my z1, or jvc, or HVX etc...all with no adaptor. I love my adaptors but sometimes you don't have to use them!! Best, Phil __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

March 30th, 2007, 04:58 PM	#279
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	Watching the short on the screen at full res here and yes it doesn't look quite the same as stuff done using the adaptor but things like sharpness (yes it is sharp, but not too sharp) are all things which can be tweaked in the settings. Shots like the clouds rolling over the sun can not be acheived with an adaptor due to my using a 20x zoom with 2x extender to get it. Don't get me wrong I am not knocking adaptors. I will always be first in line to sing their praises, the point I am trying to raise is too many people are thinking it is the answer to making their stuff look better...there are so many things to do first before taking that leap. Once that leap has been made be prepared to have a steep learning curve because shooting good stuff consistantly on an adaptor is tough. It takes much longer, is much slower and there are so many limitations. Don't forget the cameras out there are all capable of shooting beautiful pictures, as long as you know what you are doing! After all a good stills man can take cracking pics using a cheap digital camera...it's how you use the tools you have! I use my Brevis a lot to achieve a certain look for some projects. It is a tool for me, like my Matte box is a tool and my Dolly and track is a tool. By the way, have a look at my Virtual Water piece on my site. I had a lot of fun making it, all done on the XDCAM hd and all post done on final cut pro. I was going to use my Brevis but I just didn't have the time, the shooting schedule was too tight. I am very happy with the end results. __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

April 2nd, 2007, 02:25 AM	#281
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	i actually had half hour to do some shots, i was working for a news channel doing a story on early blooms. Had the rushes so decided to cut them together at weekend. __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

May 19th, 2007, 01:20 PM	#282
Ben Winter Trustee Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 1,675 Images: 1	A good Low Contrast +5 example My parents were attending a formal last night and asked me yesterday afternoon to take some pictures of them with their digital camera. The manual control is really quite shoddy as it's one of those cheaper built-in zoom cameras, and I'm used to the control an SLR offers, but I was able to lock down the settings. I shot the first photo with a .9 ND and the Low Contrast filter, and the second with just the ND. The Low contrast filter requires a levels adjustment in post but offers greater latitude. You'll see how with the levels locked down, the Low contrast filter wards off overexposure while still allowing you to expose more for the shadows, like you would with film (instead of exposing for the highlights as you would for video). You see less of this effect with something with already low latitude like HDV but the effect is still there. Attached Thumbnails __________________ BenWinter.com

May 28th, 2007, 04:10 PM	#284
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	http://web.mac.com/philip.bloom/iWeb...f%20crime.html this is a link to a clip from a short I have recently made using my JVC HD201 and the Brevis 35mm with the new CF3L diffuser. I have posted an update to my shootout with a few comments on the two new diffusers from Dennis Wood and Cinevate on my shootout page __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

March 28th, 2007, 05:34 AM	#271
Ing Poh Hii Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kuching, Malaysia Posts: 104	Thank you Chad, yes I have bothered Dennis many times before and I see both Brevis & SGPro are both improving a lot over time, so I will hold down everything until June and see which one give me the best option... Kind of a sad day to me, I injuried my knee 2 months ago and doctor said I might need a surgery and put some screws into the bone... and I can never play sport anymore... life is hard, I am just 33...

March 28th, 2007, 06:38 AM	#272
Chad Terpstra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 320	Wow man. That is sad. I feel for you. But there are lots of stories where people prove doctors wrong by a lot of hard work and rehabilitation. So don't give up yet. You may not be able to take it to the max anymore but there's a lot you might be able to do yet.

March 28th, 2007, 07:32 AM	#273
Ing Poh Hii Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kuching, Malaysia Posts: 104	Thank you very much Chad :). Yes, I now try to stay positive and make my mind gone away. 20 years ago I've broken my right arm, although I didn't get fully recovered but I still feel a bit lucky as it is my "right" arm... I am a lefthander.. now I got my left knee injury.. perhaps it is my faith to do something else.. mm.. be a good cameraman, the one who can't run.. urh! Sorry to hijack this interest 35mm adapter topic, I will go quiet for a while... Thank you everyone in DV forum especially Phil, Ben, Dennis, Danny, Ian & many more who love to see things behind a window frame...

April 1st, 2007, 08:11 PM	#280
Benjamin Eckstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 380 Images: 1	Phil, Great work, as always, with Syon footage. Absolutely lovely and beautiful. I think it is inspiring to remember that tools alone do not make for great work. (That said), with all the tools in your arsenal, why did you shoot that piece on the DSR and not the XDCAM HD? Just curious. Oh, and despite what I said....tools can be great and fun, and I finally ordered my Brevis yesterday. B

May 19th, 2007, 09:14 PM	#283
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	I like the way your father looks in the first shot (with the low contrast filter) and your mother looks better in the second. It has more to do with the pose than the filter, but the overblown highlights seem to have a smoothing effect on the face. The brighter colors in the foliage on the second shot look more appealing. I'm assuming you didn't do any color correction yet on the first shot. Bringing up the mid-high colors would give that nice bright feel from the second shot while retaining the details preserved by the greater contrast. It's amazing the difference of the range between the shots. It's not even an extreme sort of shot as there isn't sky in the background yet the difference is clear. The shadows are brighter and the highlights noticeably darker with the filter. I have an Ultra Contrast 3 filter on the way as I'm hoping to get some of the latitude improvements the adapter brings at times when I don't have it installed. I also have an interesting idea about how to use a contrast-reducing filter along with the Brevis. I'll let you know if it was a stupid idea or not. I did not get a Low Contrast 5 filter because I don't have a 4x4 mattebox yet. The best I have is a Cokin filter holder and they don't have any low contrast filters that size. The only thing that even came close was a 72mm Ultra Contrast 3. I'm thinking I will need to add some sort of light diffusion filter to simulate the effect of the ground glass, but I can probably approximate that with a digital filter in post until I work things out.