Canon Ee-s Screen evaluation (and good value static design)

[Toenis Liivamaegi]

Just wanted to show some 100% frame grabs in low light at max gain.
Bokeh sample 1.
Bokeh sample 2.
Bokeh sample 3.

Some raw wide angle fun here! 19mm f4 in that low light ;)...
It`s deinterlaced and lock your player`s aspect to 4:3 if it doesn`t to that automaticly.

I hope never to use anything else than EE-S screen as it does what the name says - super precision focusing.
Since my 8" LCD died on set I was forced to focus and frame everithing on camera LCD for 4 hours and I was absolutely blown away that it was so easy with this screen plus that nice bokeh.

(Unfortunately) CINEDOF™ vibrator / noise reductor was turned on all the time.

Cheers,
T

[Thomas Richter]

Thanks Toenis for sharing the screengrabs.

I think you pointing at the EE-S was a great contribution to the comunity here (see Toenis' bokeh vs low light loss thread).

And your oscillator unit looks very well designed, do you take preorders for the unit yet?

I wrote enough praise for the EE-S at the beginning of the thread, so I'll cut it out here :-)

I'll continue to build on my adapter - hopefully I'll have some more (better) samples within the next few days. I've found a promising new way to align the many lenses I currently play around with.

Hopefully we can get this great value screen into an easy design most non-pro people can afford and DIY.

[Zulkifli Yusof]

Toenis,

Im having trouble playing your videos. Anyone knows what could be the problem? My Windows Media Player keeps saying it encountered an unknown error and Quicktime doesnt play it.

[Toenis Liivamaegi]

My videos might require this XviD codec

T

[Thomas Richter]

Attached you'll find a screengrab of a new setup of lenses I tested.

Still far from the goal, but the middle of the screen displays the potential of the screen - the rest is distortion due to bad achromat setup.

I have just seen what Wayne's revised SGPro can do with the FX1 which makes me utter the frequently quoted statement: "I wish I had never started my DIY project".

It definitely adds a note of caution to further DIY experiments (and the expenses that go with it).

[Frank Hool]

Thomas, there are some are seen (at least) three rays of segmential curves. They seem to have an interferencial nature. Can You explain what it is. And thank You for starting Your own DIY project :) It engages worth of many people here.

[Toenis Liivamaegi]

Those must be the frensel rings showing up.
One thing to do is to reverse the screen so frensel is at the another side but I`m not sure if that wouldn`t introduce some other problems.
Light spill from the sides of screen makes frensel rings visible sometimes and if those are not visible equally throughout the screen your screen might be out of alignment.
See my STATIC example here: 19mm ultrawide at f4

And some oscillating ones:
Sample 1.
Sample 2.
Sample 3.
Sample 4.
Notice that all the dirt is gone.

Short hand held clip can be downloaded here, it was shot at max gain unfortunately as sun was set already.
And this is almost as good as it gets

I quess 19mm ultrawide doesn`t take P series filters well as you can see the vignetting (cokin`s gradual ND2 was on).

Please bear in mind that it was shot with tiny Panasonic GS150, 180deg flip and deinterlace in vDub.

Best regards,
T

[Toenis Liivamaegi]

We just measured EE-S screen`s light loss and it is virtually ZERO given that HVX200 didn`t change it`s aperture from f11 without or with adaptor.
HVX was in shutter priority mode and feild of view was equalized to test chart not to allow any errors. HVX registered 1/3 stop light loss only when SLR lens were stopped down to f2.8 from f2 (it changed from f11 to f8)!
From f1.2 to f2 there was no visual lightloss that HVX could register but as far as I know HVX registers light loss in 1/3 stop increasements.

Weird thing was that when tested with tiny GS150 there was 1/3 stop light loss with adaptor attached, SLR lens at f2 or f1.2 again didn`t matter to camera`s light meter.
GS150 changed from f4 without adaptor to f2.8 with adaptor when in shutter priority mode.

As 1/3th stop of light loss isn`t much I quess that Canon`s microlens technology rules big time.

Cheers,
T

[Rene Hinojosa]

Can you re-post the parts required and cost overall? Thanks!

[Thomas Richter]

Thanks Toenis,

seems your little oscillator is the way to go.

The fresnel pattern showing on my screengrab could be both misalignment and light spill. I am still using prototypes (early prototypes).

The Canon EE-S is, as far as I can tell (and also Toenis' tests have shown), the best ready made screen you can get.

Now, building my own adapter around it has proven far more difficult than I expected. With a smaller cam, you may get by without achromat etc. A smaller lens and sensor may well allow to focus directly on the screen. In this case a DIY setup is very easy. Just Camera -> Toenis oscillator with EE-S screen -> macro tube with FD or nikon mount -> lens

Cheap and excellent for cams like the Pana GS series

However, if you have a beautiful beast like the FX1, you will need a really good achromat. And a more complex setup. Which does require a significant investment ... and extra money to play around and experiment.

I spent roughly 150 - 200 EUR experimenting. I don't regret it and I will continue to do tests with the lens and screen I now own. But enough spent on test equipment, I may go for one of the ready made solutions you can find in this beautiful forum.

[Toenis Liivamaegi]

Thomas, tomorrow I`ll take our HVX200 to local Canon facility to test out their premium achromats like 250D and 500D.
HVX200 has lens diametre of 82mm but my quess would be that it will still work with less powerful but premium grade achromats like 250D ($65.00).

I know that Z1/FX1, DVX100A and XL series worked without an achromatic CU lens with one frensel focusing screen oscillator at least but I just cann`t recall the settings those were using. HVX`s closest framing settings for example are zoom77 focus0 and that results in lens to focusing screen distance of ca 50mm.

Regs,
T

[Thomas Richter]

Thanks a lot for the info, I'll try varying the distances between screen and camera. I'll post if I find out anything new.

Kind regards,

Thomas

PS: I was not able to get the screen to fill the format without close up lens. The problem is the opening pupil at the exit point already exceeds the diameter of the screen up to ca. 30mm focal length (manual zoom). And at 30mm focal length the closest focus is aound 50 cm.

This is at aperture wide open. However, if you stop down, it may be possible.

[Toenis Liivamaegi]

Thomas, how does FX1 macro function work? As far as I know it`s only 1cm from camera lens to subject, can you comment on that one?

Dang, I almost forgot I had uploaded two quick samples:
Sample footage from f1.2 to f16 Dirt on the screen is still not noticeable.
And OFF/ON sample with lens set at f2 and camera shutter at 250 You can see the dirt oscillating but noise is still quite organic, I quess it`s at max gain also. I was experimenting with additional direct mount options and noise reduction possibilities so it`s kinda shaky.


T

[Thomas Richter]

FX one macro function is at max wideangle. The exit pupil is around 55 mm in diameter, the screen has a diagonal of 43 mm. At one cm the picture hence covers roughly 60mm diagonal, screen is only 43. Around 70% coverage in full scan - plus the hotspot and the barrel distortion is really bad then.

I think you have written an excellent suggestion for an easy DIY solution here (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...t=74719&page=3) , so I will not try to imitate it here.
However, I will continue experimenting with the achromats I got, maybe I can find a good setting.

[I J Walton]

I also noticed the curved lines in the screen grabs "fresnel pattern". They are also on Toenis' footage of the motor turned off.

The thing is, you cannot see these when the screen is in an SLR camera. My cameras use these same type screens with the fresnel and you cannot see the lines. So why do you think they are showing up when the screen is not vibrating?

(EDIT)
Okay I have just checked with one of my nikon screens. And it turns out that you only see these lines if your screen is in the wrong way around. I dont know how you have yours, but it must have the Fresnel side facing the SLR lens, and you view the Smooth side.