A new chemically engineered GG

Bob Hart · June 27th, 2006, 02:30 AM

I do not know what went horribly wrong with the post above but it is mutilated and stunted and missing a bit about the polishing.

For the polishing there are first two grinds, the first with a farly coarse 300, then a finer dressing with the A05.

The polish is done by using a fine felt material glued down over a glass disk which is a tight fit in the bottom of the mixer barrel. The BK7 disk still glued down to the brass disk with wax, is moved over this pad in a slurry of cerium oxide. The polish happens in about one hour but if the grinding stages was not finished, the polish has very smooth fine pits in it.

When the polish is complete on both sides, one side is then dressed again with the AO5 against a glass disk to get the groundglass finish. Care has to be taken not to let the AO5 slurry to become too overworked as gouges can occur in the groundglass finish.

Finally, the preceding post describes my own understanding of how the other methods of moving groundglass work and may not reflect in truth the operating principles, so the my commentary should be regarded with some healthy scepticism. If My understanding severely misdescribes the principles of other appliances, then I sincerely apologise in advance.

Alex Chong · June 27th, 2006, 02:38 AM

Hi Bob, thanks for theinfo. Very informative especially on the P+S system. So looks like they too use a simple albeit more sophisticated system to move their GG. I 100% agree with you on the GG. If they are the best you can get, we pretty much solve the problem with image quality whether its rotating or vibrating. I admit I still prefer rotating as they are silent and no vibration as long as the GG is centrally located.

About your method of grinding. I am stump as to the complexity of the device. And looks like for the disk from Ohara, boths sides are not polished. That would mean you have to polish both sides. Getting one side to ground properly is hard enough. To polish it, wow, that is hard work.

I just use simple round cut glass and ground one side with 1200 sandpaper. The image look pretty decent.

I am hoping for a miracle with Tony's idea. If it work, then at least I can spend more time building a proper housing for my mini35. Making it out of plumbing stuff just isn't right as the precision is not there.

Once again Bob, thanks for the info. I am clear now on how P+S works.

Tony,

Hope you get well soon. I have just emailed you on my requirements. Hope you can give me a good offer. Once I accept, how do I pay you?

Bob Hart · June 27th, 2006, 02:59 AM

The ohara glass is definitely not finished on either side and involves a lot of work.

Tony's method of using very thin, very flat slices of BK7 finished glass is the attraction. There should not be any image shake which is nearly as much as a challenge to mpg2 compression as visible moving groundglass grain is.

What his method of finish offers is that one will be able to use a much larger zoom range in the relay stage with FX1 or similar inbuilt lens camcorders to go in closer on the groundglass image to assist framing and composition without compromising the image sharpness as much.

This is why I would still use his glass as a spinner and not simply as a fixed glass. Viewed close enough and there will have to be some texture visible as there is with wax.

But used as a moving GG, the main limitation on zoom-in enlargement of the GG image may well be the sharpness of the SLR lens itself and the camcorder's own limitations.

If only he can get the texture uniform around the entire disk??

Alex Chong · June 28th, 2006, 06:43 PM

Tony,

You feeling much better? This thread hasn't been updated for a few days, thought I'll just checkup on you.

Tony Relph · July 13th, 2006, 04:44 AM

Hi everyone.

Sorry I havent updated you all on the DiGi35 GG, I've just got back from holiday. Website should be up and running next week with footage and stills. To all of those who requested a brochure, that to will also be complete by next week.

Wayne Kinney · July 13th, 2006, 05:09 AM

Welcome back Tony,

Did you manage to send that GG sample?

Tony Relph · July 13th, 2006, 09:29 AM

Been on holiday, I got back late last night. I have the cut glass, just waiting for the seals to be delivered, been told it should be Monday therefore GG's should all be ready Wednesday.

Mark Welsh · July 13th, 2006, 10:00 AM

Also waiting in line for a sample . . . several people in expectation a la Adaptor Wars Part IV: The Static Strikes Back (A New Hope).

Tony Relph · July 13th, 2006, 10:04 AM

My Bulldog Broadband is being upgraded in my area at the moment to 16mb so Im having to use bloody dialup at the moment. Does anyone have a solution as to how I can post sample movies as it will take forever to upload. Been told 3weeks till its finished. Want to get samples uploaded ASAP. Any suggestions?

Tim Johnson · July 13th, 2006, 10:31 AM

go to an internet cafe and ask if you can upload there?

Tim Goldman · July 13th, 2006, 10:40 AM

well, heres a rather easy mehtod, but i dunno if it's legal. Get ta flash drive (1 gig or so) go to the local librarry, use flash drive wqith computer. seems sorta simple

Tony Relph · July 13th, 2006, 01:10 PM

LOL, internet cafe!! There are about 6 internet cafes within 500metres! I dunno why I didnt think of that, its the most obvious solution, THANKS TIM, will do that. People always seem to miss the most obvious solutions, well I do anyway......well quite a lot actually, LOL.

Donnie Wagner · October 31st, 2006, 08:14 AM

Tony,
you havent posted since July 13th. Are you still going forward with your new gg production?

Andrew Todd · October 31st, 2006, 09:39 AM

looks like the site is gone

Tony Relph · November 2nd, 2006, 08:53 PM

Hi everyone,

Sorry that I havent been on here for ages. Various patent applications have been submitted regarding the DiGi35 so I have been advised to hold off for a while as least until that have been filed.

I am currently working with a medical imaging equipment manufacturer at present regarding the GG and due to the possibilities this is priority until the patents have at been filed.

By the way Alex, with regards to the coin motors the lady at robotmotors has them in stock, see called me about 2month ago to see if I needed anymore. If you need any let me know.

With regards to the DiGi35 as soon as the patents have been filed it will be available, its just that I've been told if I my various parts of it available then this will void any patent application, well thats what my patent agent has said. It wasnt until I realised the potential of the product was I advised to hold back and do it properly.

Sorry to go a bit off thread but I spoke to movietube UK distributor this week and he says that the movietube is and has always sold like crazy. At £8,000 a piece and selling by the shit load its making someone very rich. Mind you it works out cheaper then the Mini35 cos it doesnt need a £,1250 camera mount kit for each camera.

Anyway I will post the new domain name once things are finalised and ready.

Thanks,

July 13th, 2006, 04:44 AM	#80
Tony Relph Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canary Wharf, London E14 Posts: 166	Hi everyone. Sorry I havent updated you all on the DiGi35 GG, I've just got back from holiday. Website should be up and running next week with footage and stills. To all of those who requested a brochure, that to will also be complete by next week. __________________ Tony Relph. anthonyjohnrelph@hotmail.com

July 13th, 2006, 05:09 AM	#81
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Welcome back Tony, Did you manage to send that GG sample? __________________ Thanks, Wayne.

July 13th, 2006, 09:29 AM	#82
Tony Relph Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canary Wharf, London E14 Posts: 166	Been on holiday, I got back late last night. I have the cut glass, just waiting for the seals to be delivered, been told it should be Monday therefore GG's should all be ready Wednesday. __________________ Tony Relph. anthonyjohnrelph@hotmail.com

July 13th, 2006, 10:04 AM	#84
Tony Relph Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canary Wharf, London E14 Posts: 166	My Bulldog Broadband is being upgraded in my area at the moment to 16mb so Im having to use bloody dialup at the moment. Does anyone have a solution as to how I can post sample movies as it will take forever to upload. Been told 3weeks till its finished. Want to get samples uploaded ASAP. Any suggestions? __________________ Tony Relph. anthonyjohnrelph@hotmail.com

July 13th, 2006, 10:31 AM	#85
Tim Johnson Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 101	go to an internet cafe and ask if you can upload there? __________________ (Wishes to be more informative and helpful than a nuisance)

June 27th, 2006, 02:30 AM	#76
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	I do not know what went horribly wrong with the post above but it is mutilated and stunted and missing a bit about the polishing. For the polishing there are first two grinds, the first with a farly coarse 300, then a finer dressing with the A05. The polish is done by using a fine felt material glued down over a glass disk which is a tight fit in the bottom of the mixer barrel. The BK7 disk still glued down to the brass disk with wax, is moved over this pad in a slurry of cerium oxide. The polish happens in about one hour but if the grinding stages was not finished, the polish has very smooth fine pits in it. When the polish is complete on both sides, one side is then dressed again with the AO5 against a glass disk to get the groundglass finish. Care has to be taken not to let the AO5 slurry to become too overworked as gouges can occur in the groundglass finish. Finally, the preceding post describes my own understanding of how the other methods of moving groundglass work and may not reflect in truth the operating principles, so the my commentary should be regarded with some healthy scepticism. If My understanding severely misdescribes the principles of other appliances, then I sincerely apologise in advance.

June 27th, 2006, 02:38 AM	#77
Alex Chong Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Brunei Posts: 140	Hi Bob, thanks for theinfo. Very informative especially on the P+S system. So looks like they too use a simple albeit more sophisticated system to move their GG. I 100% agree with you on the GG. If they are the best you can get, we pretty much solve the problem with image quality whether its rotating or vibrating. I admit I still prefer rotating as they are silent and no vibration as long as the GG is centrally located. About your method of grinding. I am stump as to the complexity of the device. And looks like for the disk from Ohara, boths sides are not polished. That would mean you have to polish both sides. Getting one side to ground properly is hard enough. To polish it, wow, that is hard work. I just use simple round cut glass and ground one side with 1200 sandpaper. The image look pretty decent. I am hoping for a miracle with Tony's idea. If it work, then at least I can spend more time building a proper housing for my mini35. Making it out of plumbing stuff just isn't right as the precision is not there. Once again Bob, thanks for the info. I am clear now on how P+S works. Tony, Hope you get well soon. I have just emailed you on my requirements. Hope you can give me a good offer. Once I accept, how do I pay you?

June 27th, 2006, 02:59 AM	#78
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	The ohara glass is definitely not finished on either side and involves a lot of work. Tony's method of using very thin, very flat slices of BK7 finished glass is the attraction. There should not be any image shake which is nearly as much as a challenge to mpg2 compression as visible moving groundglass grain is. What his method of finish offers is that one will be able to use a much larger zoom range in the relay stage with FX1 or similar inbuilt lens camcorders to go in closer on the groundglass image to assist framing and composition without compromising the image sharpness as much. This is why I would still use his glass as a spinner and not simply as a fixed glass. Viewed close enough and there will have to be some texture visible as there is with wax. But used as a moving GG, the main limitation on zoom-in enlargement of the GG image may well be the sharpness of the SLR lens itself and the camcorder's own limitations. If only he can get the texture uniform around the entire disk??

June 28th, 2006, 06:43 PM	#79
Alex Chong Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Brunei Posts: 140	Tony, You feeling much better? This thread hasn't been updated for a few days, thought I'll just checkup on you.

July 13th, 2006, 10:00 AM	#83
Mark Welsh New Boot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: UK Posts: 9	Also waiting in line for a sample . . . several people in expectation a la Adaptor Wars Part IV: The Static Strikes Back (A New Hope).

July 13th, 2006, 10:40 AM	#86
Tim Goldman Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 135	well, heres a rather easy mehtod, but i dunno if it's legal. Get ta flash drive (1 gig or so) go to the local librarry, use flash drive wqith computer. seems sorta simple __________________ Wish I had something witty to say

July 13th, 2006, 01:10 PM	#87
Tony Relph Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canary Wharf, London E14 Posts: 166	LOL, internet cafe!! There are about 6 internet cafes within 500metres! I dunno why I didnt think of that, its the most obvious solution, THANKS TIM, will do that. People always seem to miss the most obvious solutions, well I do anyway......well quite a lot actually, LOL. __________________ Tony Relph. anthonyjohnrelph@hotmail.com

October 31st, 2006, 08:14 AM	#88
Donnie Wagner Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 135	Tony, you havent posted since July 13th. Are you still going forward with your new gg production?

October 31st, 2006, 09:39 AM	#89
Andrew Todd Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Saint John, CANADA Posts: 633	looks like the site is gone __________________ video : xl2 / letus35xl / bogen 503 photo- canon 1dmkII - bronica etrsi

November 2nd, 2006, 08:53 PM	#90
Tony Relph Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canary Wharf, London E14 Posts: 166	Hi everyone, Sorry that I havent been on here for ages. Various patent applications have been submitted regarding the DiGi35 so I have been advised to hold off for a while as least until that have been filed. I am currently working with a medical imaging equipment manufacturer at present regarding the GG and due to the possibilities this is priority until the patents have at been filed. By the way Alex, with regards to the coin motors the lady at robotmotors has them in stock, see called me about 2month ago to see if I needed anymore. If you need any let me know. With regards to the DiGi35 as soon as the patents have been filed it will be available, its just that I've been told if I my various parts of it available then this will void any patent application, well thats what my patent agent has said. It wasnt until I realised the potential of the product was I advised to hold back and do it properly. Sorry to go a bit off thread but I spoke to movietube UK distributor this week and he says that the movietube is and has always sold like crazy. At £8,000 a piece and selling by the shit load its making someone very rich. Mind you it works out cheaper then the Mini35 cos it doesnt need a £,1250 camera mount kit for each camera. Anyway I will post the new domain name once things are finalised and ready. Thanks, __________________ Tony Relph. anthonyjohnrelph@hotmail.com