RED One and its effect on 35mm adapters at DVinfo.net

Eric Gan · May 17th, 2006, 02:03 PM

If the RED One really comes in at $17,500, wouldn't that have a dramatic impact on the pricing of products such as the mini35 or pro35? I can't imagine people would still spend $10k+ on an adapter if you can shoot on a native 35mm sensor for not much more. It would even affect the decision to rent - say a Z1 + mini35 + cine lenses - probably won't be that much different than a RED with cine lenses. Exciting times ahead! What do you guys think?

Bob Grant · May 17th, 2006, 04:37 PM

Certainly the RED with a real 35mm lens is going to blow a prosummer camera with the image going through a piece of scratched plastic out of the water image quality wise.
However I think you need to look carefully at the overall cost of ownership / production.
For example for a one week shoot with a mid sized crew the cost differential between shooting with say a XL H1 with adaptors compared to say a F900 is pretty small change if you're renting. Where shooting HDCAM costs is in post.

Certainly if the output from RED is as easy to deal with in post as HDV then yes, it'll have a big impact, if anything you'd have to wonder why you'd bother with a cheap camera with an expensive adaptor and expensive glass when you can just use RED with expensive glass to get a much better result and is some ways actually lower your post costs as the image will be easier to manipulate.

Same argument would also apply to using the SI camera.

But people seem to have blinkered vision, they just look at the cost of one component, the camera, and ignore the rest of the costs involved in production.

Eric MacIver · June 1st, 2006, 10:55 PM

We have a few RED cameras on pre-order, and if they live up to their promise, I estimate that our rental charges may drop slightly on the mini35 when rented as a PACKAGE.

However, keep in mind with the RED, you'll also be renting (most likely) more expensive batteries and storage (as well as possibly cages, monitors, etc), not to mention the potential of much higher costs in post.

I believe there will still be a good reason to shoot with the mini, but you'll also have a great option in the RED.

Oh - and for what it's worth, the mini isn't made from scratched plastic... We've had a few customers complain about those that were (which is why we don't carry them), but no complaints on the mini35.

Hornady Setiawan · June 1st, 2006, 11:27 PM

Sony's XDCAM HD F330 is out NOW for $17K also... with plenty of nice features...

Which one you guys would choose?

Eric MacIver · June 2nd, 2006, 12:39 AM

I'm not yet a fan of that camera, but of course that's your choice. There are a few other interesting cameras out there to me - the SI cam and the Thompson Rev Drive camera are a few of them.

Andrew Wahlquist · June 2nd, 2006, 09:46 AM

Eric, have you seen the test footage from the new Silicon Imaging camera over at http://indiefilmlive.blogspot.com? It's really amazing-- you should get on that boat. I don't think, with the editing solutions of today, that a lot of indie filmmakers will be going 2K or above yet.

I'd love to get my hands on a pre-release head-only version for the film we're planning in July-- if SI can swing it, which they aren't sure yet. Maybe you can buy it and we'll rent it from you? :)

Andrew

May 17th, 2006, 02:03 PM	#1
Eric Gan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 187	RED One and its effect on 35mm adapters If the RED One really comes in at $17,500, wouldn't that have a dramatic impact on the pricing of products such as the mini35 or pro35? I can't imagine people would still spend $10k+ on an adapter if you can shoot on a native 35mm sensor for not much more. It would even affect the decision to rent - say a Z1 + mini35 + cine lenses - probably won't be that much different than a RED with cine lenses. Exciting times ahead! What do you guys think?

June 1st, 2006, 10:55 PM	#3
Eric MacIver Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 121	We have a few RED cameras on pre-order, and if they live up to their promise, I estimate that our rental charges may drop slightly on the mini35 when rented as a PACKAGE. However, keep in mind with the RED, you'll also be renting (most likely) more expensive batteries and storage (as well as possibly cages, monitors, etc), not to mention the potential of much higher costs in post. I believe there will still be a good reason to shoot with the mini, but you'll also have a great option in the RED. Oh - and for what it's worth, the mini isn't made from scratched plastic... We've had a few customers complain about those that were (which is why we don't carry them), but no complaints on the mini35. __________________ http://www.IndieRentals.com RED Rentals, Camera, Grip, Lighting, Sound, Post and More. http://www.madmojo.com Production blog.

June 2nd, 2006, 12:39 AM	#5
Eric MacIver Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 121	I'm not yet a fan of that camera, but of course that's your choice. There are a few other interesting cameras out there to me - the SI cam and the Thompson Rev Drive camera are a few of them. __________________ http://www.IndieRentals.com RED Rentals, Camera, Grip, Lighting, Sound, Post and More. http://www.madmojo.com Production blog.

June 2nd, 2006, 09:46 AM	#6
Andrew Wahlquist New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 16	SI "Eve" Eric, have you seen the test footage from the new Silicon Imaging camera over at http://indiefilmlive.blogspot.com? It's really amazing-- you should get on that boat. I don't think, with the editing solutions of today, that a lot of indie filmmakers will be going 2K or above yet. I'd love to get my hands on a pre-release head-only version for the film we're planning in July-- if SI can swing it, which they aren't sure yet. Maybe you can buy it and we'll rent it from you? :) Andrew

May 17th, 2006, 04:37 PM	#2
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Certainly the RED with a real 35mm lens is going to blow a prosummer camera with the image going through a piece of scratched plastic out of the water image quality wise. However I think you need to look carefully at the overall cost of ownership / production. For example for a one week shoot with a mid sized crew the cost differential between shooting with say a XL H1 with adaptors compared to say a F900 is pretty small change if you're renting. Where shooting HDCAM costs is in post. Certainly if the output from RED is as easy to deal with in post as HDV then yes, it'll have a big impact, if anything you'd have to wonder why you'd bother with a cheap camera with an expensive adaptor and expensive glass when you can just use RED with expensive glass to get a much better result and is some ways actually lower your post costs as the image will be easier to manipulate. Same argument would also apply to using the SI camera. But people seem to have blinkered vision, they just look at the cost of one component, the camera, and ignore the rest of the costs involved in production.

June 1st, 2006, 11:27 PM	#4
Hornady Setiawan Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia Posts: 103	Sony's XDCAM HD F330 is out NOW for $17K also... with plenty of nice features... Which one you guys would choose?