Digital still camera with the best movie mode capability

[Carlos Serrano]

Stephen,
the HD1 uses MP4 codec at different bitrates for different quality settings: 1280x720 30FPS 9Mb/sec, 1280x720 30FPS 6Mb/sec, 640x480 60FPS 6Mb/sec, 640x480 30FPS 3Mb/sec, and some others. The image sensor is a 5.1MP CCD, 1/2.5 inch size. You can take digital stills at 10MP (interpolated), 5MP, 2MP, 1.2 and 0.3MP. It has 10X optical zoom, 1 cm macro, image stabilizer and port for external microphone.
It has two bad points, quality drops in low light conditions, and a bug in the HD codec that makes diagonals dented in \ direction, but probably it would be solved with a firmware.

You can watch some video samples here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=66914

The Sanyo Xacti C6 is a 6Mp digital still, 640x480 30FPS 3Mb/sec, 5x optical zoom, stabilizer, and no problems with low light or bugs. It´s much cheaper and small than the HD1. I think this is the best choice if you are not interested in HD video.

None of them has any time limitation for video shots, only the SD card size. In a 2Gb card you can store 29 minutes of HD video ( HD1 ) or 1 hour and 22 minutes in 640x480 mode, in best quality settings.
Bye!

[Chris Hurd]

The Canon PowerShot S80 will give you a 1024 x 768 video at 15fps.

[George Ellis]

BTW, 15fps tip. I have had lots of luck using Avid Liquid's Timewarp FX to change it to "progressive" with motion detection and keeping the video at the same rate. It smooths it out significantly. Your NLE may offer the same ability.

[Wayne Morellini]

Stephen all I can say is, if you want to, wait.

I think there will be much better options coming with HD.

The Sanyo HD1 might be the best at the moment for resolution, but not so good otherwise. There is a 18Mb/s H264 Samsung scheduled in coming months, and others probably this year, but these are unlikely to have a big lens. There is a possibility of one of more big lens Digital Still cameras with HD video this year.

That is the picture as far as I can tell.

Re-edit:

I have just found this:

http://www.alt-vision.com/Foveon.htm

Notice it says new product coming.

[Carlos Serrano]

The Samsung will be the model SC-HDX15 and seems to be a good choice, but will cost twice the price of the HD1.

[Stephen Chan]

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini

Stephen all I can say is, if you want to, wait.

I think there will be much better options coming with HD.

The Sanyo HD1 might be the best at the moment for resolution, but not so good otherwise. There is a 18Mb/s H264 Samsung scheduled in coming months, and others probably this year, but these are unlikely to have a big lens. There is a possibility of one of more big lens Digital Still cameras with HD video this year.

Hi Wayne, do you mean a digital SLR with HD movie mode? Which manufacturer?

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini

That is the picture as far as I can tell.

Re-edit:

I have just found this:

http://www.alt-vision.com/Foveon.htm

Notice it says new product coming.

I had a look at the page http://www.alt-vision.com/foveon.htm
Is anyone using these sensors in a DIY HD project?

[Stephen Chan]

Originally Posted by Carlos Serrano

The Samsung will be the model SC-HDX15 and seems to be a good choice, but will cost twice the price of the HD1.

Hi Carlos, that Samsung is very expensive and small lens compared to your Sanyo unit.

[Wayne Morellini]

Originally Posted by Stephen Chan

Hi Wayne, do you mean a digital SLR with HD movie mode? Which manufacturer?

Well, yes, possible, I'll let you fill the rest in yourself until announcements are made/information leaks. I have heard of nothing from the still camera manufacturers themselves.

This information has obviously been out there for a while. What's his name, Lorin, with the mamacow NAB info site, posted a link to information forecasting 720p movie mode for still, with an nominated year. I believe advance information on some projects might have been available at that time and this might be where that came from.

If you think presently announced cameras are suitable enough buy them, but if you think need better and can wait, then maybe that is best for you if you want.

I do not have information on end cameras or any release times. I hope something will turn up this year, maybe next year. From the information obtainable from google, you might be able to draw the same conclusion that HD for big lens cameras is coming soon.

[George Ellis]

I have used 5MP pics to make a "Ken Burns" WMV-HD slideshow in 720P that looked good on a 46" LCD on Media Center. And with a remote connection and a timer ($125 ish), it looks like time-lapse video is in easy grasp. Put in a 2GB or larger card, set for 5MP, and frame every 30 seconds. We just bought a Panasonic DMC-FZ30 from one of our sponsors (plug) and I think I may get a timer after I figure out which one is compatible. Not a DSLR, but one of the better advanced super-zooms and easy to use for all members of the family.

[Wayne Morellini]

Looks like there is something new on various sites, just found this through google:
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:0...2&client=opera
http://www.vegatecgroup.com/9624_000...Design_Kit.pdf

[Charles Papert]

Hello chaps,

Timely thread as I am investigating the super-slim point and shoots and would like one with decent movie mode as a secondary concern. I'm leaning towards the Nikon S6. Anyone have thoughts on the movie mode between that and the other skinny possibilities (Xlim, Optio, etc)

[Daniel Apollon]

I own a Canon XT Rebel (350D). New firmware can be uploaded to the beast.
Lets go the software way, then. Why not OUR software ?

What about tapping the 8MP CMOS and outputs the raw continuous stream (no shutter, no compression) to the highspeed USB .0 port as a, say, 2MP or 4MP 24p/25p or any ###p picture stream which could be processed and possibly compressed at will on a PC....

This could apply to any other suitable digital SLR.

This could be our "Andromeda" project

Any suggestion ? links ?

[John Wyatt]

Wayne
Texas instruments announced "DaVinci technology" last February -- a new processor for digital still camera OEMs which was quoted as being 3x the performance of present still camera processors (they quote 75 MP/second). It would support camera chips up to 16 megapixels in size, but of more interest to us is the ability to easily process 720p at 30 fps. This might be the processor we've been waiting for (I've read nothing about real world cameras yet though).

Main TI site:
www.ti.com

DaVinci specific site:
www.thedavincieffect.com

[Wayne Morellini]

Originally Posted by Daniel Apollon

I own a Canon XT Rebel (350D). New firmware can be uploaded to the beast.
Lets go the software way, then. Why not OUR software ?

What about tapping the 8MP CMOS and outputs the raw continuous stream (no shutter, no compression) to the highspeed USB .0 port as a, say, 2MP or 4MP 24p/25p or any ###p picture stream which could be processed and possibly compressed at will on a PC....

This could apply to any other suitable digital SLR.

This could be our "Andromeda" project

Any suggestion ? links ?

I agree with you mostly (USB is an beast, unless the hardware is setup right) the problem is finding somebody that wants to do it. If you google around, and ask at forums like dpreview and stevesdigicam) you will find people that have done firmware conversions. the only ones I currently can remember, is people that do webcam firmware for Astro photography, I posted a thread on it, masses of links. There was another one for those one use cameras, where people hacked the firmware, and one for Mamed, that used an on camera OS (think it might be related to the one eventually used the Ipod, but am uncertain on details) to put a games emulator on there. Happy goggling ;) Asking around the Linux normal/video/photography, open hardware and hacker communities is another avenue (unless you find detailed information on the camera internal components it can take a more effort to find it out).

The hardware, most cameras are not upto HD video. You need to determine the highest continuous, forever, shooting mode of the camera, get that resolution times by the frame per second possible, and divide the 720p frame resolution into that to see if you get at least 24fps. If you do, then there is a hope that you might be able to do it. Maybe there are cameras that can do it now days, because of the every increasing resolution of cameras. Next, you have to be able to bin (combine groups of pixels for lower resolution) and window (only red out a sub section of the entire sensor frame) the readout down to 720p (this is to make the maximum use of the limited off sensor data rate). There are possibly even $200 dollar cameras that could do this.

The problem, lots of technicals, and adjustments of the sensor hardware to produce the right levels and frames, and programming through puts to the USB2/USB2 DRIVE. The data path between the sensor and drive might have permanent obstacles.

Saving the bayer data might be best, if you save 8 bit 4:2:0 then extra calculation and 50% extra storage space, if you do 4:2:2 same again except 100% more storage space, and the USB2 interface might be struggling to get it out. 10 bits is 25% more. The USB data path might also be something like, 12Mb/s to 100Mb/s, instead of the full 480Mb/s. To get 4:4:4 colour from group of bayer pixels, or an x3, it is three times more, so you are most likely stuck with Bayer.

You see why it is worth getting somebody with a good hand at these things. Maybe ask the German guy that got into the Sony HC1 firmware, can't remember by look for a HC1 firmware thread.

Now realise, tat HD video Digital cameras could be coming this year, maybe before you can finish.

Now consider this, if you could get a 720p video capable stills camera to do RAW, or different frame rates. Well, we have one already anyway

[Wayne Morellini]

Originally Posted by John Wyatt

Wayne
Texas instruments announced "DaVinci technology" last February -- a new processor for digital still camera OEMs which was quoted as being 3x the performance of present still camera processors (they quote 75 MP/second). It would support camera chips up to 16 megapixels in size, but of more interest to us is the ability to easily process 720p at 30 fps. This might be the processor we've been waiting for (I've read nothing about real world cameras yet though).

Main TI site:
www.ti.com

DaVinci specific site:
www.thedavincieffect.com

Good find John, but also keep an eye on the www.ambarella.com chips. So, you are advocating that we should all go davinci coding?