Another DIY adapter footage

Robert Batta · March 1st, 2007, 07:16 AM

Hi Ettore,

_if possible_ please send one short original (no color correction and any post production) DV video sample ...or deinterlaced snapshots

thanks,
Robert

Stephen Pipe · March 4th, 2007, 12:59 PM

That is truly awsome footage, it's amazing how good a DIY adapter can look.

James Mather · March 5th, 2007, 07:03 PM

So Ettore, Well done - your pictures are beautiful - certainly the most vivid and clean adapter footage I have ever seen - miles ahead of everyone else. May I ask a question - in the end - is the main thing the 320 grit and the washing or the CD - what do you consider the most important element?

Many thanks

James

Noah Yuan-Vogel · March 5th, 2007, 10:33 PM

Really nice looking footage, could you give me an idea of what sort of color correction was done or is that look largely due to the adapter itself? between the amazing sharpness (maybe that is hard to judge with 450x360 clips), lack of chromatic aberration, and great color correction thats some of the best looking 35mm adapter footage ive seen. the footage looks a lot like film, maybe its desaturation or low contrast. Any details about your techniques would be greatly appreciated.

James Mather · March 6th, 2007, 02:44 AM

Yeah, the COMPLETE lack of chromatic aberration and light dispersion along edges is really impressive (I would love to see a couple of HiRes grabs - all the links at the head of this thread are regrettably gone) - any chance that you'd dig up some stills or higher res footage Ettore? Thx. J. Also where would I get a glass GG system?

Bob Hart · March 7th, 2007, 05:16 PM

Knight Optical in the UK apparently will make groundglass disks in plastic or glass. I got my raw 1.3mm thick already holed unfininshed optical glass disk blanks that I figured and polished myself from Ohara in Japan but have not since been able to re-order.

James Mather · March 11th, 2007, 02:09 AM

Thanks for the nfo.

Chris Leong · April 3rd, 2007, 11:57 AM

Ettore -
I've been following this thread with much interest!
So when are you going to finish your long-awaited construction manual? :)
Please at least give us details as to the construction of the video lens end!
Achro doublet, what focal length?
How far's your +10 (or is it a +7?) set away from the lens? Or was this a part of the original adaptor you bought? And how are you setting focus and keeping it there? Gluing the elements in still working for you?
Thank you very much for your generosity!
Cheers
Chris

Ettore Giraldi · April 4th, 2007, 04:21 PM

Thank you very much! i would like to answer all your questions but my english... :(
so please forgiveme, also i've had problem with my account (lost password, comunicate it to the forum moderators) for a few days, i'll try anyway...

I'm not a DigitalVideo expert, i'm not a master doying mechanical objects.
my hobby is telescopes, watching stars and things like that, from always in this activity we have much problems with
residual color error (secondary spectrum), sharpeness, distortions. Optical assemblages are part of our exhaustive discussions there.

My attention goes to the light and its behavior, every other technical considerations comes later ( lenses, alluminium, titanium and ivory)... they are just phisical supports and channels,
... my system (focusing screen and APO lenses) produces a image full of colors and contours 'cause the GG is almost
trasparent and the objective "translate" better the image.

But what about Bokeh? its there (its a illusion), but homogenius... no "soft focus..glow" effects around the blur areas even with such opacity level!

And the hotspot (light falloff)? this could not be a problem, every objectives, microscope, telecopes, every artificial light manipulation produces a round like that... got to find only the right piece of glass to put in front/back of it, not a drama. :)

How? the way it moves and the way i've designed the lines (surface inlaid relief ), when the disc spins
fast "organize" the light difusion ( remember when you watch a car wheel going fast and seems like its rolling back to the opposite side?)
i've tryied to exploit this optical illusion to give back better the inevitable compromise these 'loss light' systems work. i have no light
to waste more than the necessary.

Remember i have an old cheap Canon XM2 camera, wich start to give back to me strange color dominations, insistents greens etc...
I'm still using a very cheap Yashica ML Slr lens, i imagine how good it could be with a high ended sharpen objectives like Carl Zeiss Planar.

Ok, i'll be back...guys, if you interesed we working on a solid alluminium box with brushless micromotor (silent, fast and durable), polycarbonate treated GG and a really good self designed Barlow lens, apochromatic (apo) it produces high-contrast edges and brillant colors, correcting even better
light different wavelengths. The release will take a bit of time anyway, got to be optimal. You will be able to put it in front of every type camera, HD or SD, theorically this is not a problem to me, i produce one single image, don't matter what elletronic eyes you have.

As you ask me for:

Larger CLIP Test 480x368
I've used some brightness , no sharpen filter, no curves, no saturations. what you get is what you see.

Issues:
Vignetting on the bottom of the screen (not alined well the whole thing inside the box )

Dust ( it was a test near my workshop, i was working on it)

Grain: all DV and QuickTime compression stuff, GG aereal image CANNOT have any visible interference like that.

No sound: brushed dc elletric micromotor produces a boring "buzz" effect.

Screen shots
Screenshot -1
Screenshot -2
Screenshot -3
Screenshot -4
Screenshot -5

Thank you all!

Eniola Akintoye · April 11th, 2007, 11:29 PM

Any ETA on the first Batch?

Also, how come it is usable for any type of camera when different camera has different .mm thread?

Dale Backus · April 20th, 2007, 01:18 PM

This is an amazing thread guys!

I've been doing a LOT of research regarding the DIY adapters, and this is a very interesting case. I had a couple questions though...

I know this is a spinning solution, have you ever tried a static version? I know (or atleast i heard) the movietube using the microcrystalline wax sandwiched between two pieces of glass as a static solution, and due to the extremely fine crystals in that wax it provides a great diffuser and possibly very little grain? This is all conjecture, and i'm out of town at NAB and waiting to get home to tinker with it, but it seems to me the static solution would be ideal if you could find a substance that would diffuse the light well and not produce a ton of grain.

But i'm a tad discouraged because i've seen your amazing footage and i learned that it's a spinning solution and it makes me think that there's something i'm missing.

Any thoughts?

GREAT job here...

Dale

Wayne Kinney · April 20th, 2007, 01:24 PM

Unfortunately, the quest for a grain free or minimal grain static solution generally means you sacrifice good bokeh rendition (the look of the out of focus areas of the image).

Dale Backus · April 20th, 2007, 03:00 PM

I'm guessing this has been tried then? This makes me wonder then, how those guys at Movietube and JVC are doing it?

Any examples anyone can point me to where people have tried this technique?

Frank Ladner · April 20th, 2007, 03:14 PM

Dale,

Microcrystalline wax is a good way to go for a static solution. It's not too fun to work with, but I think the process has been streamlined since I've tried it. Thickness of the wax is key. Too thin and you get hotspots, too thick and the image is too diffused/soft.

Here are some of my old test clips and frame grabs:
http://70.147.193.182:81/mwtest/

Dale Backus · April 20th, 2007, 03:25 PM

Sorry, next post...

March 1st, 2007, 07:16 AM	#76
Robert Batta Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hungary / Europe Posts: 128	Hi Ettore, _if possible_ please send one short original (no color correction and any post production) DV video sample ...or deinterlaced snapshots thanks, Robert __________________ Robert Batta my stock video portfolio : https://www.pond5.com/artist/skysuta Pond5 – the world’s first web-based stock footage marketplace –

March 5th, 2007, 07:03 PM	#78
James Mather New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7	Ettore - beautiful footage So Ettore, Well done - your pictures are beautiful - certainly the most vivid and clean adapter footage I have ever seen - miles ahead of everyone else. May I ask a question - in the end - is the main thing the 320 grit and the washing or the CD - what do you consider the most important element? Many thanks James

April 3rd, 2007, 11:57 AM	#83
Chris Leong Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles CA USA Posts: 507	Your Manual! Ettore - I've been following this thread with much interest! So when are you going to finish your long-awaited construction manual? :) Please at least give us details as to the construction of the video lens end! Achro doublet, what focal length? How far's your +10 (or is it a +7?) set away from the lens? Or was this a part of the original adaptor you bought? And how are you setting focus and keeping it there? Gluing the elements in still working for you? Thank you very much for your generosity! Cheers Chris Last edited by Chris Leong; April 3rd, 2007 at 01:06 PM.

April 20th, 2007, 01:18 PM	#86
Dale Backus Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 132	Wow This is an amazing thread guys! I've been doing a LOT of research regarding the DIY adapters, and this is a very interesting case. I had a couple questions though... I know this is a spinning solution, have you ever tried a static version? I know (or atleast i heard) the movietube using the microcrystalline wax sandwiched between two pieces of glass as a static solution, and due to the extremely fine crystals in that wax it provides a great diffuser and possibly very little grain? This is all conjecture, and i'm out of town at NAB and waiting to get home to tinker with it, but it seems to me the static solution would be ideal if you could find a substance that would diffuse the light well and not produce a ton of grain. But i'm a tad discouraged because i've seen your amazing footage and i learned that it's a spinning solution and it makes me think that there's something i'm missing. Any thoughts? GREAT job here... Dale

April 20th, 2007, 01:24 PM	#87
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Unfortunately, the quest for a grain free or minimal grain static solution generally means you sacrifice good bokeh rendition (the look of the out of focus areas of the image). __________________ Thanks, Wayne.

March 4th, 2007, 12:59 PM	#77
Stephen Pipe Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 49	That is truly awsome footage, it's amazing how good a DIY adapter can look.

March 5th, 2007, 10:33 PM	#79
Noah Yuan-Vogel Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New York City Posts: 613	Really nice looking footage, could you give me an idea of what sort of color correction was done or is that look largely due to the adapter itself? between the amazing sharpness (maybe that is hard to judge with 450x360 clips), lack of chromatic aberration, and great color correction thats some of the best looking 35mm adapter footage ive seen. the footage looks a lot like film, maybe its desaturation or low contrast. Any details about your techniques would be greatly appreciated.

March 6th, 2007, 02:44 AM	#80
James Mather New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7	Yeah, the COMPLETE lack of chromatic aberration and light dispersion along edges is really impressive (I would love to see a couple of HiRes grabs - all the links at the head of this thread are regrettably gone) - any chance that you'd dig up some stills or higher res footage Ettore? Thx. J. Also where would I get a glass GG system?

March 7th, 2007, 05:16 PM	#81
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Knight Optical in the UK apparently will make groundglass disks in plastic or glass. I got my raw 1.3mm thick already holed unfininshed optical glass disk blanks that I figured and polished myself from Ohara in Japan but have not since been able to re-order.

March 11th, 2007, 02:09 AM	#82
James Mather New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7	Thanks for the nfo.

April 4th, 2007, 04:21 PM	#84
Ettore Giraldi New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 20	Thank you very much! i would like to answer all your questions but my english... :( so please forgiveme, also i've had problem with my account (lost password, comunicate it to the forum moderators) for a few days, i'll try anyway... I'm not a DigitalVideo expert, i'm not a master doying mechanical objects. my hobby is telescopes, watching stars and things like that, from always in this activity we have much problems with residual color error (secondary spectrum), sharpeness, distortions. Optical assemblages are part of our exhaustive discussions there. My attention goes to the light and its behavior, every other technical considerations comes later ( lenses, alluminium, titanium and ivory)... they are just phisical supports and channels, ... my system (focusing screen and APO lenses) produces a image full of colors and contours 'cause the GG is almost trasparent and the objective "translate" better the image. But what about Bokeh? its there (its a illusion), but homogenius... no "soft focus..glow" effects around the blur areas even with such opacity level! And the hotspot (light falloff)? this could not be a problem, every objectives, microscope, telecopes, every artificial light manipulation produces a round like that... got to find only the right piece of glass to put in front/back of it, not a drama. :) How? the way it moves and the way i've designed the lines (surface inlaid relief ), when the disc spins fast "organize" the light difusion ( remember when you watch a car wheel going fast and seems like its rolling back to the opposite side?) i've tryied to exploit this optical illusion to give back better the inevitable compromise these 'loss light' systems work. i have no light to waste more than the necessary. Remember i have an old cheap Canon XM2 camera, wich start to give back to me strange color dominations, insistents greens etc... I'm still using a very cheap Yashica ML Slr lens, i imagine how good it could be with a high ended sharpen objectives like Carl Zeiss Planar. Ok, i'll be back...guys, if you interesed we working on a solid alluminium box with brushless micromotor (silent, fast and durable), polycarbonate treated GG and a really good self designed Barlow lens, apochromatic (apo) it produces high-contrast edges and brillant colors, correcting even better light different wavelengths. The release will take a bit of time anyway, got to be optimal. You will be able to put it in front of every type camera, HD or SD, theorically this is not a problem to me, i produce one single image, don't matter what elletronic eyes you have. As you ask me for: Larger CLIP Test 480x368 I've used some brightness , no sharpen filter, no curves, no saturations. what you get is what you see. Issues: Vignetting on the bottom of the screen (not alined well the whole thing inside the box ) Dust ( it was a test near my workshop, i was working on it) Grain: all DV and QuickTime compression stuff, GG aereal image CANNOT have any visible interference like that. No sound: brushed dc elletric micromotor produces a boring "buzz" effect. Screen shots Screenshot -1 Screenshot -2 Screenshot -3 Screenshot -4 Screenshot -5 Thank you all!

April 11th, 2007, 11:29 PM	#85
Eniola Akintoye Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Duluth GA Posts: 238	Any ETA on the first Batch? Also, how come it is usable for any type of camera when different camera has different .mm thread?

April 20th, 2007, 03:00 PM	#88
Dale Backus Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 132	Interesting... I'm guessing this has been tried then? This makes me wonder then, how those guys at Movietube and JVC are doing it? Any examples anyone can point me to where people have tried this technique?

April 20th, 2007, 03:14 PM	#89
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Dale, Microcrystalline wax is a good way to go for a static solution. It's not too fun to work with, but I think the process has been streamlined since I've tried it. Thickness of the wax is key. Too thin and you get hotspots, too thick and the image is too diffused/soft. Here are some of my old test clips and frame grabs: http://70.147.193.182:81/mwtest/

April 20th, 2007, 03:25 PM	#90
Dale Backus Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 132	Sorry, next post...