Possible GG idea at DVinfo.net

Mike Oveson · February 27th, 2006, 11:08 AM

I've been working with a gentleman that creates custom focusing screens. Unfortunately for me his materials have focusing circles in the center of them, thus rendering them useless for a GG. He has suggested another type of screen that may work. I've posted a link to a picture of the lens below for you to view. His description of the screen is as follows: "It's glass, flat and frosted on one side and convex and polished on the other. This screen measures 22 x 30mm." Any ideas on whether this would work or not? I've only seen the flat GGs made from glass or something like a Nikon D screen (although I don't know the actual shape of the elements in the D screen). If someone can tell me whether this might work or not I'd really appreciate it. Thanks everyone.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59...DSCN2827_s.jpg

Daniel Lipats · February 27th, 2006, 11:14 AM

I think its worth a try.

What is it called and where can i pick some up?

*edit*

is it something like this?
http://www.wolverinesports.com/mirrors.html

That would make for some very cheap ground glass + condenser... Unfortunatly its not glass... its the "Double Convex Acrylic Len"...

How bad is light loss for Acrylic?

Mike Oveson · February 27th, 2006, 11:24 AM

I am just in contact with him personally. I will PM you with his email address.

Jim Lafferty · February 27th, 2006, 11:29 AM

I'll save you the effort and say it won't work. I've spoken with Bill Maxwell for a bit, and he, like Beattie, uses a custom optical acrylc process to make his screens. The grain is at best approaching somehting like WAO5 ground glass, but nothing like you'd need for a static adapter.

Now, if you could get your hands on an optical acrylic machine ($30k), that would be something -- you might be able to custom design your surface to spec.

- jim

Daniel Lipats · February 27th, 2006, 11:36 AM

Jim provided me with the email adderess of the guy who may have thies. When he replies we should have more information on the quality, and a price.

Hopefully it is glass, and a very fine grain. If the grain is too visible we could just have it vibrate.

Mike Oveson · February 27th, 2006, 11:47 AM

I know very little about optics and/or ground glass, so I don't know if it's worth it. That's why I asked. :D

Now, Jim, you're saying that Maxwell uses a custom optical acrylic process like Beattie. From what I have read/heard/seen about these Beattie screens they are supposed to be rather nice for a static adapter. So wouldn't that make it higher quality? I'm just trying to understand all of this.

Jim Lafferty · February 27th, 2006, 11:54 AM

It's all relative. "Higher quality" than what? What is high enough? The Beattie provides a great image in many ways, but the grain is readily apparent in highlights. Watch the Holyzoo videos in Steev's "Ultimate Adapter" thread -- you'll see what I mean.

The Beattie and moreover Maxwell screens are probably great for oscillating adapters but pretty non-functional as static adapters.

Daniel Lipats · February 27th, 2006, 12:15 PM

Thanks for the info Mike.

The screen came out of a European 1950's era SLR camera, so i dont think there are any focus screens like it manufactured today. Ill keep an eye out for optics similar to this one.

I may try the acrylic optics just to see what kind of results i can get.

Mike Oveson · February 27th, 2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Lafferty

It's all relative. "Higher quality" than what? What is high enough? The Beattie provides a great image in many ways, but the grain is readily apparent in highlights. Watch the Holyzoo videos in Steev's "Ultimate Adapter" thread -- you'll see what I mean.

Good enough for me is a Nikon D screen but I can't find any. Very difficult to locate any source for those. I guess I will just keep looking.

Ben Winter · February 27th, 2006, 12:47 PM

Mike, B&H stocks them pretty regularly. If they're out of stock of the Nikon D's they should be in in a few weeks.

Mike Oveson · February 27th, 2006, 01:10 PM

Thanks for the tip, but I haven't had much luck getting one from them yet. I've got them on my wishlist and I'm signed up to receive notification at three email addresses when they do come in. So, I'm hoping they do come in soon. :D Just hard to snag them before all of the other 35mmophiles get them.

Daniel Lipats · February 27th, 2006, 01:29 PM

Hey Mike, i just ran across a post at DVXuser forums...
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.p...8&postcount=10

The Canon Ee-a or the Ee-s could be a good alturnative to the hard to find Nikon D. I dont think anyone has tested it yet.

Mike Oveson · February 27th, 2006, 01:59 PM

That's what I love about this place. Everyone actively looks out for the other person. Totally cool.

Unfortunately I am aware of that thread (and have been actively participating in it) and there is some debate at the moment as to whether or not the screens have a small focusing circle in them. One of the guys has ordered two of both types and we are awaiting their arrival to determine whether or not they will be a good substitute. But thank you for putting forth that information. Maybe it will also point others in a better direction.

Giroud Francois · February 27th, 2006, 03:01 PM

merging the gg and condenser is an old idea that some of us already implemented. It is a great solution but has a huge draback. You can not vibrate it, since vibrating a lens will vibrate the focal point too.

Daniel Lipats · February 27th, 2006, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giroud Francois

merging the gg and condenser is an old idea that some of us already implemented. It is a great solution but has a huge draback. You can not vibrate it, since vibrating a lens will vibrate the focal point too.

Vibrating the ground glass would blur the focus too, as your distance from the SLR lens would vary. You have to make it vibrate in a way that the condenser/gg moves only left-right or up-down. You can find some pictures of the Letus35, it has a good solution.

February 27th, 2006, 11:08 AM	#1
Mike Oveson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ogden, UT Posts: 349	Possible GG idea I've been working with a gentleman that creates custom focusing screens. Unfortunately for me his materials have focusing circles in the center of them, thus rendering them useless for a GG. He has suggested another type of screen that may work. I've posted a link to a picture of the lens below for you to view. His description of the screen is as follows: "It's glass, flat and frosted on one side and convex and polished on the other. This screen measures 22 x 30mm." Any ideas on whether this would work or not? I've only seen the flat GGs made from glass or something like a Nikon D screen (although I don't know the actual shape of the elements in the D screen). If someone can tell me whether this might work or not I'd really appreciate it. Thanks everyone. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59...DSCN2827_s.jpg

February 27th, 2006, 11:29 AM	#4
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	I'll save you the effort and say it won't work. I've spoken with Bill Maxwell for a bit, and he, like Beattie, uses a custom optical acrylc process to make his screens. The grain is at best approaching somehting like WAO5 ground glass, but nothing like you'd need for a static adapter. Now, if you could get your hands on an optical acrylic machine ($30k), that would be something -- you might be able to custom design your surface to spec. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

February 27th, 2006, 11:54 AM	#7
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	It's all relative. "Higher quality" than what? What is high enough? The Beattie provides a great image in many ways, but the grain is readily apparent in highlights. Watch the Holyzoo videos in Steev's "Ultimate Adapter" thread -- you'll see what I mean. The Beattie and moreover Maxwell screens are probably great for oscillating adapters but pretty non-functional as static adapters. __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

February 27th, 2006, 12:47 PM	#10
Ben Winter Trustee Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 1,675 Images: 1	Mike, B&H stocks them pretty regularly. If they're out of stock of the Nikon D's they should be in in a few weeks. __________________ BenWinter.com

February 27th, 2006, 11:14 AM	#2
Daniel Lipats Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 260	I think its worth a try. What is it called and where can i pick some up? edit is it something like this? http://www.wolverinesports.com/mirrors.html That would make for some very cheap ground glass + condenser... Unfortunatly its not glass... its the "Double Convex Acrylic Len"... How bad is light loss for Acrylic?

February 27th, 2006, 11:24 AM	#3
Mike Oveson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ogden, UT Posts: 349	I am just in contact with him personally. I will PM you with his email address.

February 27th, 2006, 11:36 AM	#5
Daniel Lipats Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 260	Jim provided me with the email adderess of the guy who may have thies. When he replies we should have more information on the quality, and a price. Hopefully it is glass, and a very fine grain. If the grain is too visible we could just have it vibrate.

February 27th, 2006, 11:47 AM	#6
Mike Oveson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ogden, UT Posts: 349	I know very little about optics and/or ground glass, so I don't know if it's worth it. That's why I asked. :D Now, Jim, you're saying that Maxwell uses a custom optical acrylic process like Beattie. From what I have read/heard/seen about these Beattie screens they are supposed to be rather nice for a static adapter. So wouldn't that make it higher quality? I'm just trying to understand all of this.

February 27th, 2006, 12:15 PM	#8
Daniel Lipats Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 260	Thanks for the info Mike. The screen came out of a European 1950's era SLR camera, so i dont think there are any focus screens like it manufactured today. Ill keep an eye out for optics similar to this one. I may try the acrylic optics just to see what kind of results i can get.

February 27th, 2006, 01:10 PM	#11
Mike Oveson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ogden, UT Posts: 349	Thanks for the tip, but I haven't had much luck getting one from them yet. I've got them on my wishlist and I'm signed up to receive notification at three email addresses when they do come in. So, I'm hoping they do come in soon. :D Just hard to snag them before all of the other 35mmophiles get them.

February 27th, 2006, 01:29 PM	#12
Daniel Lipats Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 260	Hey Mike, i just ran across a post at DVXuser forums... http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.p...8&postcount=10 The Canon Ee-a or the Ee-s could be a good alturnative to the hard to find Nikon D. I dont think anyone has tested it yet.

February 27th, 2006, 01:59 PM	#13
Mike Oveson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ogden, UT Posts: 349	That's what I love about this place. Everyone actively looks out for the other person. Totally cool. Unfortunately I am aware of that thread (and have been actively participating in it) and there is some debate at the moment as to whether or not the screens have a small focusing circle in them. One of the guys has ordered two of both types and we are awaiting their arrival to determine whether or not they will be a good substitute. But thank you for putting forth that information. Maybe it will also point others in a better direction.

February 27th, 2006, 03:01 PM	#14
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	merging the gg and condenser is an old idea that some of us already implemented. It is a great solution but has a huge draback. You can not vibrate it, since vibrating a lens will vibrate the focal point too.