Adapter Shootout? at DVinfo.net

Aaron Koolen · February 9th, 2006, 01:56 PM

Not trying to hijack, but is there some site or such that has a shootout between these devices? I mean they range a lot in price from about

$300 for a basic Letus35

to $600 for a basic M1/2/3(cinescreen)

to $3600 for a MPIC

You get the picture.

I'm looking at getting one of these things (MPIC is out for me) and for the work I do I only need "pretty good" not "film quality" results, so I'd like to see some sort of shootout.

Downloaded footage from people's tests is OK to look at, but it's nice to have someone who knows what they're talking about do a shootout and fill us in on all the goods and bads.

Cheers

Steev Dinkins · February 9th, 2006, 02:02 PM

I would do one if Red Rock, Cinemek, and Quyen sent me units to keep. ;)

Dennis Wood · February 9th, 2006, 04:29 PM

dvx is doing a shootout feb 25 or so. Check their DIY section..."Envision" is running it.

Wayne Kinney · February 9th, 2006, 04:43 PM

Yes that right, im fedexing the SG35 to Norm 'Envision' on Monday.

He doesn't seem to know if the other makers, apart from Letus and 'my35' are taking part.

Steev Dinkins · February 9th, 2006, 04:51 PM

Alright, I do think it's cool there will be a shootout. But can we open a new thread to cover this?

Thanks guys.

-steev

Chris Hurd · February 10th, 2006, 02:58 PM

Split from "MPIC 35mm Imager Review" thread.

I think I can help to arrange our own DV Info Net Adapter Shootout, if we can come to some consensus here on which adapters should be involved, what the testing methodology should be and who can help to put it together (hey Steev?) -- so for anybody who's interested, your input on this subject is certainly welcome here!

Jim Lafferty · February 10th, 2006, 05:04 PM

Will we have to supply lenses?

I'd been interested in participating in the DVXUser shootout, but they didn't have any Nikon f-mount lenses on-hand, and I can't really part with mine, the only one I've got...

Will Hanlon · February 10th, 2006, 07:54 PM

We should test each for:
- the amount of grain
- how easy it is to get dust and speckles inside the adapter (whether any ship with some too)
- how well they are built (are they sturdy or flimsy, can they be opened and cleaned easily if needed)
- whether any have vignetting issues when properly set up
- how many f-stops they reduce light by (although I like the reduction of light since I think it makes it easier to light scenes well)
- how much ghosting occurs

I'd like to see a comparison between the SG35, the Letus35 Flip, Redrock's M2, the MPIC, the $10,000 one, and the G35 (if it's done or even a beta).

Matthew Wauhkonen · February 10th, 2006, 08:43 PM

Don't forget a chromatic abberation test (to test the quality of the achromat) and a distortion test (using a 50mm lens, so no distortion from wide angle/telephoto) to test the distortion from the condenser. Noise is a big question of course, I agree. (Pointing the adapter at blown out piece of backlit heavy diffusion seems like a good set up.)

Resolution is a primary concern as well, and I disagree that light loss is even a remotely good thing. You can always step down; you can't magically step up, and most of these adapters require 2000w-5000w to light a medium night interior. A lot.

Dennis Wood · February 10th, 2006, 09:36 PM

I'd add the following:

1. ISO or EIA charts with and without the adapters with the cam's f/stop constant. That will quickly address distortion issues as well as res loss across the chart.

2. Bokeh, and bokeh DV noise.

3. Diffusion level. Inadequate diffusion can lead to ghosting, but gives less light loss, with a definite difference in bokeh. A focus rack through a point source of light will demonstrate this.

4. Hotspotting! I found an f/stop decrease to zebras quickly showed subtle GG problems. The pattern of zebra fill across an evenly lit ISO 122223 as f/stop is decreased is an objective way to test this.

5. 16:9 vignetting. Testing the adapters with a cam like the DVX100 will not tell the story for HVX, XL2 ect. cams that widen the field of view 15% over 4:3 cams.

6. Noise and vibration.

February 9th, 2006, 01:56 PM	#1
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Not trying to hijack, but is there some site or such that has a shootout between these devices? I mean they range a lot in price from about $300 for a basic Letus35 to $600 for a basic M1/2/3(cinescreen) to $3600 for a MPIC You get the picture. I'm looking at getting one of these things (MPIC is out for me) and for the work I do I only need "pretty good" not "film quality" results, so I'd like to see some sort of shootout. Downloaded footage from people's tests is OK to look at, but it's nice to have someone who knows what they're talking about do a shootout and fill us in on all the goods and bads. Cheers __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

February 9th, 2006, 02:02 PM	#2
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	I would do one if Red Rock, Cinemek, and Quyen sent me units to keep. ;) __________________ www.holyzoo.com

February 9th, 2006, 04:43 PM	#4
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Yes that right, im fedexing the SG35 to Norm 'Envision' on Monday. He doesn't seem to know if the other makers, apart from Letus and 'my35' are taking part. __________________ Thanks, Wayne.

February 9th, 2006, 04:51 PM	#5
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	Alright, I do think it's cool there will be a shootout. But can we open a new thread to cover this? Thanks guys. -steev __________________ www.holyzoo.com

February 10th, 2006, 02:58 PM	#6
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Split from "MPIC 35mm Imager Review" thread. I think I can help to arrange our own DV Info Net Adapter Shootout, if we can come to some consensus here on which adapters should be involved, what the testing methodology should be and who can help to put it together (hey Steev?) -- so for anybody who's interested, your input on this subject is certainly welcome here! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 9th, 2006, 04:29 PM	#3
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	dvx is doing a shootout feb 25 or so. Check their DIY section..."Envision" is running it.

February 10th, 2006, 05:04 PM	#7
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Will we have to supply lenses? I'd been interested in participating in the DVXUser shootout, but they didn't have any Nikon f-mount lenses on-hand, and I can't really part with mine, the only one I've got... __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

February 10th, 2006, 07:54 PM	#8
Will Hanlon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 148	We should test each for: - the amount of grain - how easy it is to get dust and speckles inside the adapter (whether any ship with some too) - how well they are built (are they sturdy or flimsy, can they be opened and cleaned easily if needed) - whether any have vignetting issues when properly set up - how many f-stops they reduce light by (although I like the reduction of light since I think it makes it easier to light scenes well) - how much ghosting occurs I'd like to see a comparison between the SG35, the Letus35 Flip, Redrock's M2, the MPIC, the $10,000 one, and the G35 (if it's done or even a beta).

February 10th, 2006, 08:43 PM	#9
Matthew Wauhkonen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 285	Don't forget a chromatic abberation test (to test the quality of the achromat) and a distortion test (using a 50mm lens, so no distortion from wide angle/telephoto) to test the distortion from the condenser. Noise is a big question of course, I agree. (Pointing the adapter at blown out piece of backlit heavy diffusion seems like a good set up.) Resolution is a primary concern as well, and I disagree that light loss is even a remotely good thing. You can always step down; you can't magically step up, and most of these adapters require 2000w-5000w to light a medium night interior. A lot.

February 10th, 2006, 09:36 PM	#10
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	I'd add the following: 1. ISO or EIA charts with and without the adapters with the cam's f/stop constant. That will quickly address distortion issues as well as res loss across the chart. 2. Bokeh, and bokeh DV noise. 3. Diffusion level. Inadequate diffusion can lead to ghosting, but gives less light loss, with a definite difference in bokeh. A focus rack through a point source of light will demonstrate this. 4. Hotspotting! I found an f/stop decrease to zebras quickly showed subtle GG problems. The pattern of zebra fill across an evenly lit ISO 122223 as f/stop is decreased is an objective way to test this. 5. 16:9 vignetting. Testing the adapters with a cam like the DVX100 will not tell the story for HVX, XL2 ect. cams that widen the field of view 15% over 4:3 cams. 6. Noise and vibration.