Modular 3CCD Video Camera at DVinfo.net

Forrest Schultz · January 29th, 2006, 03:55 AM

first read this, very quick and entertaining.

http://www.owyheesound.com/owyheesou...ar_camers.html

what type of lens will i need to mount to the c -mount, taking in mind that i plan to focus on a gg to get my 35mm adapter on that mother. I can get a big ol 15mm-70mm zoom lens. but is there any other choice to fill in this blank:

3CCD color Camera- _____ lens- GG - SLR camera lens- Subject

thanks in advance for any help and advice!

Bob Hart · January 29th, 2006, 05:58 AM

I have been using a JVC KY-F50 in a similar manner, but to supplement the PD150 by being able to use my Nikon lenses via c-mount adaptor. This includes really long lenses.

I have also used the Agus style prism erecting system into the PD150 with the same lenses. This setup remains vitually a one-piece system, thus is easier to manage but the optical result is not as good as the JVC for contrast.

With this camera you get good results.

Camcorders in the VTR mode may require a separate system for sound recording as they may only take line level in, not mike level inputs in VTR mode.

A decent LCD screen is pretty much mandatory and one that can be seen in daylight.

Oscar Spierenburg · January 29th, 2006, 06:06 PM

Very interesting. Are there any first results with this setup?

Bob Hart · January 30th, 2006, 09:20 AM

Oscar.

I haven't tried the Agus device on front of the JVC KY-F50. this cam uses C mount and although it uses 3 1/3" SD CCDs it has a relay optic in it which enables it to see as if it is a 2/3" camera.

Among other things it has a high resolution mode which is a sort of progessive scan at 25P for PAl cameras and 30P for NTSC.

This cam also can output composite, component, S-Video and RGB via a 9pin d-sub connector.

I think most of the other manufacturers products have similar features.

I have recorded progressive from it into the PD150 in VTR mode. The DVCAM codec can handle it although it still presents as an interlace signal. MiniDV won't handle it. The picture goes all blocky.

I haven't tried a Agus into it yet. It is a matter of getting off my backside, finding a 2/3" capable C-Mount lens, offsetting it forward with a spacer about 11mm and turning the camera head upside down. In progressive mode it would be interesting.

It is fine for doing concerts where you can lock it off as the wide camera and run around with the Sony or whatever. But for agileportable work or even working off a tripod in the field, it can be a handful because of the need to have a separate monitor. I have also been using long lenses on it.

It is only standard definition but the specs say it is good for 750 TV lines horizontal res. Set the gain to zero and the exposure just right and you get good deep blacks without noise.

In low light it doesn"'t do so well and any up gaining of the image either in the camera or later in the computer causes a tendency toward a faint pattern of vertical lines about ten pixels apart. I think this is an issue with the Panasonic as well??

It seems quite happy with some C=mount lenses but the Nikons are a bit trickier.You have manage exposure with the gain or shutter speed. Aperture is best at about f5.6 - f8.

Any smaller and bits of dust on the cams own relay optic on the prime lens focal plane resolve as specks.

If you increase exposure via gain or shutter you get rid of them partially but they become little circles and the pciture then begins to burn out.

This might be the artifact I have ssen described as diffraction when apertures of f16 or f22 are used onto small CCDs. But I donlt know enough about this to make valid comment.

The "modular" method as you describe it is the way I got started with DV cameras before I got the PD150. I had a JVC S-VHS - MiniDV deck and firstly fed a 480 TV line res security camera into it.

Being satisfied with that I went on to the PD150 after trying another cameraman's VX2000 out.

Forrest Schultz · January 30th, 2006, 09:40 AM

awesome, so how would you rate the quality of the image? even if they are only 1/3 ccds. do they outperform the dvx or perhaps the xl2? sounds like its best to use a c-mount zoom lens on the cam, and then attach the 35mm adpater to that.

I remember when they did a test with the JCV HD camera, the g-somthing100 or whater it is. and id be curious to know what lens they put in between the cam and the 35mm adapther, becasue that camera also has interchangable lenses

Brandt Wilson · February 2nd, 2006, 11:29 AM

Nathan based his camera design on the one built by Dan Vance. Technical detail can be found at http://www.colddayinhellthemovie.com/VC25PTech.htm.

There are other threads covering this topic, and I believe Dan posts here on occassion.

The original goal of this camera was to create an uncompressed progressive scan camera. He discovered that several cameras have what is called "field integration mode" which is a form of progressive scan. By adding a sychronized mechanical shutter, he was able to discretely capture both fields per frame and achieve 25p, which was captured to hard disc.

Look up Dan Vance and Vancecam on the forum. There's a lot of info.

Bob Hart · February 3rd, 2006, 02:14 AM

Forrest.

If your question was about the KY-F50, the sharpness seems very slightly less than the PD150. I am going in with the S-Video lead which is the only vision pathway in to the PD150 in VTR mode.

I tried going into the JVC SVHS/MiniDv deck with the camera in interlace mode via the component pins of the d-sub connector into the SCART connector on the back of the deck but could only get black and white vision out. I have only s-video into the TV so this may have been the reason. The B&W image seemed crisper but that happens anyway.

Forrest Schultz · February 3rd, 2006, 06:48 PM

thank you Bob Hart.

hi guys, ya, the Dance Vance camera seriously impressed me. but the fruits of his labor were more than dissapointing. Acting aside, i couldnt tell how clear the shots were because of the compressed trailer. i want to go this route to build a camera that can record images better than a dvx100 for cheap. If i can get the resolution, and use the 35mm adapter i have. I can do the rest. Progressive aint a worry for me, i will seperate and blend the 2 fields 50/50 in post. The images that way are superb and it mimicks film's shutter speed also. when you blend the feilds odd, even, odd, even...etc.

i have a question that probaly only dan vance can answer. does this setup achevie great resolution as compared to the dvx? in other words, progressive aside, does building a modular camera say from a Hitachi HV-C20A 1/2" 3-CCD camera , or a Sony DXC 950 1/2" 3CCD produce superb, high end shots, that can outperform many of our mini dv cameras offered today? Besides the new HD cams.

Bob Hart · February 3rd, 2006, 09:39 PM

I suspect the KY-F50 will not exceed the DVX100. The camera manual has a 1996 print date on it, so the cam's foundation design is quite old.

Forrest Schultz · February 3rd, 2006, 10:48 PM

ah. and it also has 1/3" ccds also.

these other cameras have 3 1/2" ccd's and the horizontal lines exceed 700. now i might be wrong, but thats more lines the dvx or xl2? is that right? so perhaps a newer Hitachi or Sony cam will fit the bill and outperform most dv cams

Forrest Schultz · February 3rd, 2006, 10:49 PM

i am currently trying to purhase one of these cameras off of ebay. I dont care about frame integration. all i care about is color and resolution. 1/2 ccd's are a must of course.

Forrest Schultz · February 11th, 2006, 11:15 PM

Hey Bob,

i just purchased a Sony DXC-327 video head.

same thing as this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-DXC-327A-DO...QQcmdZViewItem

no lens, no recorder. but i plan to add these things myself. I only need to ask, am i gonna be able to use it as a modular camera design? will i be able to record either compressed to minidv, or to a direct to disk device. How do you think im gonna have to work this. any advice would be awesome. I purchased this unit because of the 700 horzontal lines, and the 3 1/2" ccds. it seems it has all the goods.

January 29th, 2006, 03:55 AM	#1
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	Modular 3CCD Video Camera first read this, very quick and entertaining. http://www.owyheesound.com/owyheesou...ar_camers.html what type of lens will i need to mount to the c -mount, taking in mind that i plan to focus on a gg to get my 35mm adapter on that mother. I can get a big ol 15mm-70mm zoom lens. but is there any other choice to fill in this blank: 3CCD color Camera- _____ lens- GG - SLR camera lens- Subject thanks in advance for any help and advice!

January 29th, 2006, 05:58 AM	#2
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	I have been using a JVC KY-F50 in a similar manner, but to supplement the PD150 by being able to use my Nikon lenses via c-mount adaptor. This includes really long lenses. I have also used the Agus style prism erecting system into the PD150 with the same lenses. This setup remains vitually a one-piece system, thus is easier to manage but the optical result is not as good as the JVC for contrast. With this camera you get good results. Camcorders in the VTR mode may require a separate system for sound recording as they may only take line level in, not mike level inputs in VTR mode. A decent LCD screen is pretty much mandatory and one that can be seen in daylight.

January 29th, 2006, 06:06 PM	#3
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Very interesting. Are there any first results with this setup?

January 30th, 2006, 09:20 AM	#4
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Oscar. I haven't tried the Agus device on front of the JVC KY-F50. this cam uses C mount and although it uses 3 1/3" SD CCDs it has a relay optic in it which enables it to see as if it is a 2/3" camera. Among other things it has a high resolution mode which is a sort of progessive scan at 25P for PAl cameras and 30P for NTSC. This cam also can output composite, component, S-Video and RGB via a 9pin d-sub connector. I think most of the other manufacturers products have similar features. I have recorded progressive from it into the PD150 in VTR mode. The DVCAM codec can handle it although it still presents as an interlace signal. MiniDV won't handle it. The picture goes all blocky. I haven't tried a Agus into it yet. It is a matter of getting off my backside, finding a 2/3" capable C-Mount lens, offsetting it forward with a spacer about 11mm and turning the camera head upside down. In progressive mode it would be interesting. It is fine for doing concerts where you can lock it off as the wide camera and run around with the Sony or whatever. But for agileportable work or even working off a tripod in the field, it can be a handful because of the need to have a separate monitor. I have also been using long lenses on it. It is only standard definition but the specs say it is good for 750 TV lines horizontal res. Set the gain to zero and the exposure just right and you get good deep blacks without noise. In low light it doesn"'t do so well and any up gaining of the image either in the camera or later in the computer causes a tendency toward a faint pattern of vertical lines about ten pixels apart. I think this is an issue with the Panasonic as well?? It seems quite happy with some C=mount lenses but the Nikons are a bit trickier.You have manage exposure with the gain or shutter speed. Aperture is best at about f5.6 - f8. Any smaller and bits of dust on the cams own relay optic on the prime lens focal plane resolve as specks. If you increase exposure via gain or shutter you get rid of them partially but they become little circles and the pciture then begins to burn out. This might be the artifact I have ssen described as diffraction when apertures of f16 or f22 are used onto small CCDs. But I donlt know enough about this to make valid comment. The "modular" method as you describe it is the way I got started with DV cameras before I got the PD150. I had a JVC S-VHS - MiniDV deck and firstly fed a 480 TV line res security camera into it. Being satisfied with that I went on to the PD150 after trying another cameraman's VX2000 out.

January 30th, 2006, 09:40 AM	#5
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	awesome, so how would you rate the quality of the image? even if they are only 1/3 ccds. do they outperform the dvx or perhaps the xl2? sounds like its best to use a c-mount zoom lens on the cam, and then attach the 35mm adpater to that. I remember when they did a test with the JCV HD camera, the g-somthing100 or whater it is. and id be curious to know what lens they put in between the cam and the 35mm adapther, becasue that camera also has interchangable lenses

February 2nd, 2006, 11:29 AM	#6
Brandt Wilson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 220	Nathan based his camera design on the one built by Dan Vance. Technical detail can be found at http://www.colddayinhellthemovie.com/VC25PTech.htm. There are other threads covering this topic, and I believe Dan posts here on occassion. The original goal of this camera was to create an uncompressed progressive scan camera. He discovered that several cameras have what is called "field integration mode" which is a form of progressive scan. By adding a sychronized mechanical shutter, he was able to discretely capture both fields per frame and achieve 25p, which was captured to hard disc. Look up Dan Vance and Vancecam on the forum. There's a lot of info.

February 3rd, 2006, 02:14 AM	#7
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Forrest. If your question was about the KY-F50, the sharpness seems very slightly less than the PD150. I am going in with the S-Video lead which is the only vision pathway in to the PD150 in VTR mode. I tried going into the JVC SVHS/MiniDv deck with the camera in interlace mode via the component pins of the d-sub connector into the SCART connector on the back of the deck but could only get black and white vision out. I have only s-video into the TV so this may have been the reason. The B&W image seemed crisper but that happens anyway.

February 3rd, 2006, 06:48 PM	#8
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	thank you Bob Hart. hi guys, ya, the Dance Vance camera seriously impressed me. but the fruits of his labor were more than dissapointing. Acting aside, i couldnt tell how clear the shots were because of the compressed trailer. i want to go this route to build a camera that can record images better than a dvx100 for cheap. If i can get the resolution, and use the 35mm adapter i have. I can do the rest. Progressive aint a worry for me, i will seperate and blend the 2 fields 50/50 in post. The images that way are superb and it mimicks film's shutter speed also. when you blend the feilds odd, even, odd, even...etc. i have a question that probaly only dan vance can answer. does this setup achevie great resolution as compared to the dvx? in other words, progressive aside, does building a modular camera say from a Hitachi HV-C20A 1/2" 3-CCD camera , or a Sony DXC 950 1/2" 3CCD produce superb, high end shots, that can outperform many of our mini dv cameras offered today? Besides the new HD cams.

February 3rd, 2006, 09:39 PM	#9
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	I suspect the KY-F50 will not exceed the DVX100. The camera manual has a 1996 print date on it, so the cam's foundation design is quite old.

February 3rd, 2006, 10:48 PM	#10
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	ah. and it also has 1/3" ccds also. these other cameras have 3 1/2" ccd's and the horizontal lines exceed 700. now i might be wrong, but thats more lines the dvx or xl2? is that right? so perhaps a newer Hitachi or Sony cam will fit the bill and outperform most dv cams

February 3rd, 2006, 10:49 PM	#11
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	i am currently trying to purhase one of these cameras off of ebay. I dont care about frame integration. all i care about is color and resolution. 1/2 ccd's are a must of course.

February 11th, 2006, 11:15 PM	#12
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	Hey Bob, i just purchased a Sony DXC-327 video head. same thing as this: http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-DXC-327A-DO...QQcmdZViewItem no lens, no recorder. but i plan to add these things myself. I only need to ask, am i gonna be able to use it as a modular camera design? will i be able to record either compressed to minidv, or to a direct to disk device. How do you think im gonna have to work this. any advice would be awesome. I purchased this unit because of the 700 horzontal lines, and the 3 1/2" ccds. it seems it has all the goods.