35mm/DOF adapter for Canon GL2?

Chris Simpson · January 31st, 2006, 05:25 PM

I understand that. I was just checking to make sure that's not what the adaptor did, provide a permanent telephoto lens.

Though, I'm not particularly impressed with the change of DOF in the clips provided above. In fact, those don't look any different than what my camera currently produces. In light of this, I will probably not be getting a DOF adaptor at this time. Intead, I'm going to use that money towards hardware upgrades so I don't have to wait all day for Premiere to render.

Ben Winter · January 31st, 2006, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Simpson

In fact, those don't look any different than what my camera currently produces.

what GL2 do you have? The difference in DOF is astounding in using vs. not using the adapter. I can put a pen tip in focus at close range and keep the wall 2 cm behind it out of focus with the adapter, and I have yet to acheive anything near that with the GL2.

Chris Simpson · January 31st, 2006, 06:17 PM

The videos don't look like they have a very shallow DOF at all. The DOF I witness in those videos looks pretty standard considering you're focusing from very far to very near. I've seen the DOF from other cameras and it looks pretty amazing, but this barely looks different!

Andrew Todd · January 31st, 2006, 06:17 PM

chris.. there's no way your gl2 can provide anything close to the dof that any of these clips provide.. that would be impossible.. unless of course your camera was aquired through some wishes to a genie.. i would really like to see some of this magic footage that you have shot. Obviously the footage on this board (which i find to be quite amazing) is not selling you on this concept so you should try to make your own cheap adapter. Thats what i did. a soup can, some melted wax on a uv filter and see what you come up with. or keep on filming with your magic camera and its magic DOF.. because obviously your 3 chip prosumer camera does something that no other digital camera in the world can do..

Chris Simpson · January 31st, 2006, 06:18 PM

Listen, I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything, so don't treat me like I am. I have seen many of the videos on the site and they look incredible, but the videos in the link posted a few lines ago don't seem to live up to the rest. Since they were shot on a GL2, it makes me doubt the effectiveness of the adaptor on a GL2.

Andrew Todd · January 31st, 2006, 06:24 PM

sorry chris... just trying to be truthful abou the capabilities of your cam.. i just sold my gl1 so i know what the gl series is capable of. the gl2 will have the same dof with the use of these adapters as any camera will.. the camera wont change that aspect.. you're using the camera to film what is projected onto the screen. you could use a hi-8 camcorder and it will get the same dof as any other cam with an adapter.. just not such a pretty image but same dof.. perhaps the problem in the footage you have seen lies in the adapter..

Chris Simpson · January 31st, 2006, 06:30 PM

Thank you. I am aware of the limitations of my camera, but the videos I am specifically talking about seem to have a fairly standard DOF for their distance. The one with the child and the toys appears to have a shallow DOF. However, if you stick a few objects very close to the camera then of course the things behind it will be blurry. But, in relation, the videos of the guy skateboarding really don't seem to have a very shallow depth of field at all. The only indication of that is when he rack focuses to the leaves. Which again is very close to the camera.

In any event, maybe I am mistaken about how shallow the DOF really gets with one of these adaptors. Many of the videos I have seen and enjoyed were shot in low-light, and perhaps the objects were very close to the camera. These videos show objects distant from the camera in bright situations, with what appears to be relatively deep DOF (deeper than I would have expected/wanted.)

Andrew Todd · January 31st, 2006, 06:35 PM

it depends on the focal length and aperture of the lens used. These adapters will give you the same control over dof as people shooting with film have. most people that own 3 chip cameras for filmmaking purposes want to mimick the same feel that film gives.. if that aspect of filmmaking is not important to you then these adapters are not for you.. but if you do want more control over the storytelling proccess then these adapters have that capability

Ben Winter · January 31st, 2006, 06:41 PM

Chris, this is because the camera was either stopped down in aperture or a smaller glass lens was used, i.e. it should have no reflection on the effectiveness of the adapter, only its capabilities to handle both shallow and deep DOF. Oftentimes completely shallow DOF is undesirable since so little is in focus at one time. Stopping down the aperture brings more into focus at the same time, which is what went on in those clips. Following a skateboarder is quite difficult I'm sure so the aperture was stopped down to make pulling focus easier.

In summary, those clips' lack of DOF have nothing to do with the GL2, only the user's personal preference in the operation of the manual lens fitted on the end of the adapter.

Andrew Todd · January 31st, 2006, 07:09 PM

good job ben.. i guess my magical camera rebutal wasnt very effective.. but then again i am sitting working in a call center at the moment... rebutals rebutals rebutals...

Cole McDonald · January 31st, 2006, 08:29 PM

You are absolutely right chris...you can get very similar results to that footage (kind of)...stop frothing guys and let me explain. I've just finished my 35mm adaptor build for my XL1s. I also have a JVC DVL-GR820U. I can get focus on my thumbprint on both of these cameras and have the sides of my thumb be out of focus. The problem is that I get a thumb print on my lens when doing this. The difference is that the short focal ranges happen farther from the camera with a larger capture medium (35mm vs. 7mm in the canon prosumer stuff). With the GL1 you can get the DoF you're looking for, but you will have to let the DoF control your ability to position things in the frame. To get 6" of DoF with the GL1, you'll need to position the camera nearly touching the actors or a mile away. If you use the latter, you will crush the depth in your frame by zooming in which magnifies the background.

With the 35mm adaptor, the capture frome size allows you to be farther away frojm your subjects to get the same DoF which allows you to frame actors better rather than just their eyes or teeth. I am using a 50mm lens on my adaptor and am VERY happy with the results! Extremely different footage. The similarities you see in that footage disappear when you look at where the camera is positioned vs. where it would have been without the adaptor.

Hope that answers your questions about the differences in the DoF with/without the adaptor.

Chris Simpson · February 1st, 2006, 02:51 PM

Ben and Cole, your information was just what I needed. Thanks.

January 31st, 2006, 06:17 PM	#19
Andrew Todd Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Saint John, CANADA Posts: 633	chris.. there's no way your gl2 can provide anything close to the dof that any of these clips provide.. that would be impossible.. unless of course your camera was aquired through some wishes to a genie.. i would really like to see some of this magic footage that you have shot. Obviously the footage on this board (which i find to be quite amazing) is not selling you on this concept so you should try to make your own cheap adapter. Thats what i did. a soup can, some melted wax on a uv filter and see what you come up with. or keep on filming with your magic camera and its magic DOF.. because obviously your 3 chip prosumer camera does something that no other digital camera in the world can do.. __________________ video : xl2 / letus35xl / bogen 503 photo- canon 1dmkII - bronica etrsi

January 31st, 2006, 06:24 PM	#21
Andrew Todd Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Saint John, CANADA Posts: 633	sorry chris... just trying to be truthful abou the capabilities of your cam.. i just sold my gl1 so i know what the gl series is capable of. the gl2 will have the same dof with the use of these adapters as any camera will.. the camera wont change that aspect.. you're using the camera to film what is projected onto the screen. you could use a hi-8 camcorder and it will get the same dof as any other cam with an adapter.. just not such a pretty image but same dof.. perhaps the problem in the footage you have seen lies in the adapter.. __________________ video : xl2 / letus35xl / bogen 503 photo- canon 1dmkII - bronica etrsi

January 31st, 2006, 06:35 PM	#23
Andrew Todd Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Saint John, CANADA Posts: 633	it depends on the focal length and aperture of the lens used. These adapters will give you the same control over dof as people shooting with film have. most people that own 3 chip cameras for filmmaking purposes want to mimick the same feel that film gives.. if that aspect of filmmaking is not important to you then these adapters are not for you.. but if you do want more control over the storytelling proccess then these adapters have that capability __________________ video : xl2 / letus35xl / bogen 503 photo- canon 1dmkII - bronica etrsi

January 31st, 2006, 06:41 PM	#24
Ben Winter Trustee Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 1,675 Images: 1	Chris, this is because the camera was either stopped down in aperture or a smaller glass lens was used, i.e. it should have no reflection on the effectiveness of the adapter, only its capabilities to handle both shallow and deep DOF. Oftentimes completely shallow DOF is undesirable since so little is in focus at one time. Stopping down the aperture brings more into focus at the same time, which is what went on in those clips. Following a skateboarder is quite difficult I'm sure so the aperture was stopped down to make pulling focus easier. In summary, those clips' lack of DOF have nothing to do with the GL2, only the user's personal preference in the operation of the manual lens fitted on the end of the adapter. __________________ BenWinter.com Last edited by Ben Winter; January 31st, 2006 at 08:09 PM.

January 31st, 2006, 07:09 PM	#25
Andrew Todd Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Saint John, CANADA Posts: 633	good job ben.. i guess my magical camera rebutal wasnt very effective.. but then again i am sitting working in a call center at the moment... rebutals rebutals rebutals... __________________ video : xl2 / letus35xl / bogen 503 photo- canon 1dmkII - bronica etrsi

January 31st, 2006, 05:25 PM	#16
Chris Simpson New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 22	I understand that. I was just checking to make sure that's not what the adaptor did, provide a permanent telephoto lens. Though, I'm not particularly impressed with the change of DOF in the clips provided above. In fact, those don't look any different than what my camera currently produces. In light of this, I will probably not be getting a DOF adaptor at this time. Intead, I'm going to use that money towards hardware upgrades so I don't have to wait all day for Premiere to render.

January 31st, 2006, 06:18 PM	#20
Chris Simpson New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 22	Listen, I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything, so don't treat me like I am. I have seen many of the videos on the site and they look incredible, but the videos in the link posted a few lines ago don't seem to live up to the rest. Since they were shot on a GL2, it makes me doubt the effectiveness of the adaptor on a GL2.

January 31st, 2006, 06:30 PM	#22
Chris Simpson New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 22	Thank you. I am aware of the limitations of my camera, but the videos I am specifically talking about seem to have a fairly standard DOF for their distance. The one with the child and the toys appears to have a shallow DOF. However, if you stick a few objects very close to the camera then of course the things behind it will be blurry. But, in relation, the videos of the guy skateboarding really don't seem to have a very shallow depth of field at all. The only indication of that is when he rack focuses to the leaves. Which again is very close to the camera. In any event, maybe I am mistaken about how shallow the DOF really gets with one of these adaptors. Many of the videos I have seen and enjoyed were shot in low-light, and perhaps the objects were very close to the camera. These videos show objects distant from the camera in bright situations, with what appears to be relatively deep DOF (deeper than I would have expected/wanted.)

January 31st, 2006, 08:29 PM	#26
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	You are absolutely right chris...you can get very similar results to that footage (kind of)...stop frothing guys and let me explain. I've just finished my 35mm adaptor build for my XL1s. I also have a JVC DVL-GR820U. I can get focus on my thumbprint on both of these cameras and have the sides of my thumb be out of focus. The problem is that I get a thumb print on my lens when doing this. The difference is that the short focal ranges happen farther from the camera with a larger capture medium (35mm vs. 7mm in the canon prosumer stuff). With the GL1 you can get the DoF you're looking for, but you will have to let the DoF control your ability to position things in the frame. To get 6" of DoF with the GL1, you'll need to position the camera nearly touching the actors or a mile away. If you use the latter, you will crush the depth in your frame by zooming in which magnifies the background. With the 35mm adaptor, the capture frome size allows you to be farther away frojm your subjects to get the same DoF which allows you to frame actors better rather than just their eyes or teeth. I am using a 50mm lens on my adaptor and am VERY happy with the results! Extremely different footage. The similarities you see in that footage disappear when you look at where the camera is positioned vs. where it would have been without the adaptor. Hope that answers your questions about the differences in the DoF with/without the adaptor.

February 1st, 2006, 02:51 PM	#27
Chris Simpson New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 22	Ben and Cole, your information was just what I needed. Thanks.