New support rods question... at DVinfo.net

Marcus Marchesseault · November 15th, 2005, 05:58 PM

How will support rods hold up a big, heavy lens? Wouldn't it get in the way of using the focus? I have a lens that does not seem to have any place to add support. The whole thing covered by it's focusing or aperture rings. How could a rod system hold this up?

I know that a partial answer to my question would be to use a follow-focus mechanism, but I still don't see how a lens covered in adjustment rings could be supported. Has anybody built or bought a system that supports the lens itself? I'm sure it is easy to support the Letus35, but the lens itself?

Marcus

Dan Diaconu · November 15th, 2005, 07:12 PM

$160 (if you want) and you owe me a review.
I had a big 4/200 I made it for a while ago. It will take about 15-20 days to get it anodized (as I did not care for "looks" back then). I know exactly the problem you have.

Marcus Marchesseault · November 15th, 2005, 09:10 PM

Dan (and others),

I would love to solve my issues for $160, but I need more than just support rods. What I want is a shoulder-brace, monopod/tripod mounting, rod support with a place to mount my LCD monitor and 12v battery.

I don't want to bolt a rod support to a shoulder brace then mount my LCD to the hotshoe with a cable going to a 12V battery in a waist pack. Then, I would have to take it all apart to put it on a tripod or monopod.

I should explain how I shoot. I use my VX2000 on a stabilized monopod for 90% of what I shoot. It is a bit heavy and the stabilizer bar can get in the way. i get excellent results as I am always stabilized and I can switch from low, to shoulder-height, to 10ft. high camera angle in less than 3 seconds. I really like the flexibility of a single camera package mounted to a monopod.

Now, I have a new idea to incorporate the mass stabilization and lcd monitor into the rod support/shoulder brace and have it accept tri/monopod plates, but I don't know how to support the lens without interfering in it's operation. Also, it wouldn't hurt to have a MB or just bellows mount capable. Oh, I forgot, I also want to get a ring light or something similar.

So, here is what I want to get/make from front to back/top to bottom:

Matte box, ring light, lcd support, lens support, 35mm adapter support, camera support (mic can still attack to camera hotshoe), battery support, shoulder brace - all in one long piece. It also must accept standard mono/tripod head mounting plates on the bottom. I would then add a second battery to the bottom of the first section of the monopod, as I do now, to give the three points of mass needed for stabilization.

I know how all of this will work, except for the part where the rods get in the way of the lens. Not only do they get in the way of using it, but the lens must be allowed to move during focus. A matte box with FF allows the user to focus with rods in the way, but how would the rods support the lens without getting in the way?

I'll stop now. As you see, I've put a lot of thought into this and am a bit frustrated.

Mahalo (thanks) in advance for any advice, from anybody. I assure you, if I solve this issue, there is an excellent system for people that want lens adapters, monitors, and stabilizers...all in one package.

OH! I am handy with carbon fiber fabrication, so feel free to come up with wacky ideas. Carbon fiber can be shaped into almost anything, so the sky is the limit. Still, simple is always better in any design.

Marcus

Dan Diaconu · November 15th, 2005, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

but how would the rods support the lens without getting in the way?

Like "magic", you'll see. What is the offender lens? Give me something to work with.

Kin Kwan · November 15th, 2005, 11:29 PM

So Dan, can you make a rods support for the Letus35? How much would it cost to add a follow focus with it?

Dan Diaconu · November 16th, 2005, 12:10 AM

I have the design finished guys. No time to take pics now, but is about the same as for MPIC. Camera plate/rods support/contraption rods mount (less $ than Cavision and better design) Carbon fiber rods. The best in the west!

Marcus Marchesseault · November 16th, 2005, 06:22 AM

Okay, Dan, I'll bite. I don't know if this will be a lens I use frequently, but it is typical in size for a telephoto. It is a 28-200mm macro lens from Vivitar. It is only f3.5, so I may not use it much EXCEPT that it might be perfect for outdoor weddings where zoom flexibility may be important. I've realized that long telephoto is still best left to the onboard lens with maybe a telephoto adapter. Regardless, I will definitely get/make some sort of camera/lens/battery support system. If you can get 24" carbon fiber rods, your system may be big enough to be converted into a shoulder brace system.

I like the looks of your other hardware, and if I can get Diaconu-branded equipment that fits my purposes for $160, I'll start saving my pennies.

Marcus

Dan Diaconu · November 17th, 2005, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

Okay, Dan, I'll bite

Now.. no need to put it this way. If you are not happy, the value is the same for someone else. Pay for shipping and send it back for a refund.
Whether is this lens
http://img.2dehands.nl/f/normal/96784421.jpg
or this one
http://jml.nl/winkel/images/olympus-ET-P3028.jpg
you'll be able to "rest it" on the rods while focusing. OK? And the price is lower (less than $100)
Better yet, post a pic of your lens (I just want to make sure; some have a funny rubber grip)
Kin, the Letus rods mount is almost identical with the MPIC mount.
I should start a new thread on this. (less than $100 as well)
As for the camera/tripod/monopod plate (rods included) I can have it for about $125.
To sum it up, for about $200 you can get Letus to look like this:
http://www.dandiaconu.com/newweb/images/mpic_1.jpg
Please keep in mind: what you see is not the final design.

Michael Maier · November 17th, 2005, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Diaconu

To sum it up, for about $200 you can get Letus to look like this:
http://www.dandiaconu.com/newweb/images/mpic_1.jpg
Please keep in mind: what you see is not the final design.

I know you said it's not the final design. But so far, it's not better design than the Cavision and also it doesn't cost less. The Cavision is about $150.

Kin Kwan · November 17th, 2005, 07:17 AM

Michael, how is the Cavision one better? I think Dan's design looks pretty good and it's specifically for the Letus. Plus it is cheaper, it's $150 compared to $125. (I'm not sure what he meant by "for about $200" though.) Just curious to see why you think the other is better.

Michael Maier · November 17th, 2005, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kin Kwan

Michael, how is the Cavision one better? I think Dan's design looks pretty good and it's specifically for the Letus. Plus it is cheaper, it's $150 compared to $125. (I'm not sure what he meant by "for about $200" though.) Just curious to see why you think the other is better.

Did I say the Cavision was better? I thought I said Dan's not better, which is very different than saying the Cavision is better. It could also mean it's just as good as the Cavision and not better, which was what I meant. I think you distorted my words a little there ;)
But he said his was better and cheaper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Diaconu

Camera plate/rods support/contraption rods mount (less $ than Cavision and better design) Carbon fiber rods. The best in the west!

But now that you said it, looking again, in my opinion, the Cavision looks nicer (less homemade), and it seems to be more adjustable. Although I can't say just buy looking at Dan's from one angle.

Dan Diaconu · November 17th, 2005, 08:27 AM

No need to argue (and possibly mislead other readers):

a) Cavision does not offer a Letus rods support, right? (I offered it for under $100)
b) Cavision does offer a camera plate/rods support, right? ($125-149)
c) I offered them both for $200, right?
d) I have battled the specific issues for MPIC for months. I have the solution (not offered by Cavision).
e) On the outside, both MPIC and Letus share the same cylindrical shape (a different diameter I guess)

I also offered to take it back if it does not work for you, right?
One simple solution: buy both, try them both and send back the one that does not work.

I also offered (separately) a long lens (or zoom) rods mount/support (under $ 100) to address the issue of "ability to focus using a gear while on a zoom lens like the 28-200 I have (or other brand) WITH OR WITHOUT a support mount on the lens!!!

These are "problems" I had for some time and I HAD to address them.
I aslo fully understand YOUR problem guys with an obscene/unsupported set-up in public.

Now I offered the solution I have to you as well.

I do not want to publish anymore explicit pictures until I have the parts in stock.
I will have them in stock (that means manufacturing costs, CNC programming, etc) because IT WORKS for me here and I believe in what I do. New thread?

Marcus Marchesseault · November 17th, 2005, 09:29 AM

I don't think we need a new thread. I opened this question and this is exactly the information I am looking for. To answer why Dan's design may be better than other's, you need to go back to the original question. How to support the lens itself? The Cavision is more of a generic rod support and does not seem to offer any way to support a lens without getting in the way of the focus mechanism. Dan apparently has a solution to this issue.

For these 35mm adapters, especially the Letus35 with it's plastic lens mount, support of the lens itself may sometimes be important. I think a great example is my 28-200mm zoom lens. Some people will want to have some of their original camcorder's capabilities at the same time they get shallow DOF. A 28-200mm lens is about as wide as a wide-angle adapter and about as much telephoto as one would want without a serious tripod. For run-and-gun shooting in sunlight, this lens would be perfect. Unfortunately, it is long and heavy so it may eventually damage the 35mm adapter. Also, it is practically covered by the focus ring with little room to support it's weight. To top it off, the lens changes length when zooming! This is quite a task for anything that you try to get to support this beast. Also, the cavision doesn't seem to support a 24" rod system that I desire. If this system works, it would probably be considered revolutionary.

Oh, and I didn't mean to start any arguement. My "okay, I'll bite" remark is just an expression sometimes used as: "okay, you've partially convinced me, but since I'm skeptical...tell me more". I still want to see pictures, but I like Dan's other designs so maybe his solution is worth waiting for.

Any other ideas? My idea is to build some sort of support that extends out the right side to the front of my VX200. There is a box on the right side of the lens (focusing motor?) that has no controls that may be a good place to run a monitor and lens support arm over. If the support goes off to one side, it wouldn't get in the way of the left hand operating the focus.

Dan Diaconu · November 17th, 2005, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

To answer why Dan's design may be better than other's

Other's meaning....???
Sorry but I don't know of any other. I would have bought it and used it (or modify it if not good enough)

I think we have three distinct issues here:

One is a heavy long lens/zoom rods support "thing" (not available) stressing the SLR mount,
another distinctive one is the Letus rods support "thing" (not available) and
the last one being the camera plate/rods support (available from Cavision) which I bought and modified to address the vertical play which leads to GG being not lined up with the camcorder screen with end result in seeing the edges of the gg on the footage)
?Right?
Now, for a few units (for myself) is more practical to modify the existing and build what is missing.
For a larger no of units, cost efficient is to have them all made WITH the change in place.
For the non-existing items, the same rule applies (imo)
What do you think?

Ben Winter · November 17th, 2005, 12:40 PM

I don't understand the issue here. The Cavision rod system comes with an adjustable bracket that holds up any lens. Why not put it at the point on the lens where the flange mount meets the lens? Or even on the Letus itself? You can even tell by the pictures only that the Cavision system is meant to be a "fit all" situation.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/l...ges/335969.jpg

This picture is more helpful.

http://www.cavision.com/rods/RS15IIM_2.jpg

And the page:
http://www.cavision.com/rods/minidv.htm

November 15th, 2005, 05:58 PM	#1
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	New support rods question... How will support rods hold up a big, heavy lens? Wouldn't it get in the way of using the focus? I have a lens that does not seem to have any place to add support. The whole thing covered by it's focusing or aperture rings. How could a rod system hold this up? I know that a partial answer to my question would be to use a follow-focus mechanism, but I still don't see how a lens covered in adjustment rings could be supported. Has anybody built or bought a system that supports the lens itself? I'm sure it is easy to support the Letus35, but the lens itself? Marcus

November 17th, 2005, 12:40 PM	#15
Ben Winter Trustee Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 1,675 Images: 1	I don't understand the issue here. The Cavision rod system comes with an adjustable bracket that holds up any lens. Why not put it at the point on the lens where the flange mount meets the lens? Or even on the Letus itself? You can even tell by the pictures only that the Cavision system is meant to be a "fit all" situation. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/l...ges/335969.jpg This picture is more helpful. http://www.cavision.com/rods/RS15IIM_2.jpg And the page: http://www.cavision.com/rods/minidv.htm __________________ BenWinter.com

November 15th, 2005, 07:12 PM	#2
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	$160 (if you want) and you owe me a review. I had a big 4/200 I made it for a while ago. It will take about 15-20 days to get it anodized (as I did not care for "looks" back then). I know exactly the problem you have.

November 15th, 2005, 09:10 PM	#3
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Dan (and others), I would love to solve my issues for $160, but I need more than just support rods. What I want is a shoulder-brace, monopod/tripod mounting, rod support with a place to mount my LCD monitor and 12v battery. I don't want to bolt a rod support to a shoulder brace then mount my LCD to the hotshoe with a cable going to a 12V battery in a waist pack. Then, I would have to take it all apart to put it on a tripod or monopod. I should explain how I shoot. I use my VX2000 on a stabilized monopod for 90% of what I shoot. It is a bit heavy and the stabilizer bar can get in the way. i get excellent results as I am always stabilized and I can switch from low, to shoulder-height, to 10ft. high camera angle in less than 3 seconds. I really like the flexibility of a single camera package mounted to a monopod. Now, I have a new idea to incorporate the mass stabilization and lcd monitor into the rod support/shoulder brace and have it accept tri/monopod plates, but I don't know how to support the lens without interfering in it's operation. Also, it wouldn't hurt to have a MB or just bellows mount capable. Oh, I forgot, I also want to get a ring light or something similar. So, here is what I want to get/make from front to back/top to bottom: Matte box, ring light, lcd support, lens support, 35mm adapter support, camera support (mic can still attack to camera hotshoe), battery support, shoulder brace - all in one long piece. It also must accept standard mono/tripod head mounting plates on the bottom. I would then add a second battery to the bottom of the first section of the monopod, as I do now, to give the three points of mass needed for stabilization. I know how all of this will work, except for the part where the rods get in the way of the lens. Not only do they get in the way of using it, but the lens must be allowed to move during focus. A matte box with FF allows the user to focus with rods in the way, but how would the rods support the lens without getting in the way? I'll stop now. As you see, I've put a lot of thought into this and am a bit frustrated. Mahalo (thanks) in advance for any advice, from anybody. I assure you, if I solve this issue, there is an excellent system for people that want lens adapters, monitors, and stabilizers...all in one package. OH! I am handy with carbon fiber fabrication, so feel free to come up with wacky ideas. Carbon fiber can be shaped into almost anything, so the sky is the limit. Still, simple is always better in any design. Marcus

November 15th, 2005, 11:29 PM	#5
Kin Kwan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 120	So Dan, can you make a rods support for the Letus35? How much would it cost to add a follow focus with it?

November 16th, 2005, 12:10 AM	#6
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	I have the design finished guys. No time to take pics now, but is about the same as for MPIC. Camera plate/rods support/contraption rods mount (less $ than Cavision and better design) Carbon fiber rods. The best in the west!

November 16th, 2005, 06:22 AM	#7
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Okay, Dan, I'll bite. I don't know if this will be a lens I use frequently, but it is typical in size for a telephoto. It is a 28-200mm macro lens from Vivitar. It is only f3.5, so I may not use it much EXCEPT that it might be perfect for outdoor weddings where zoom flexibility may be important. I've realized that long telephoto is still best left to the onboard lens with maybe a telephoto adapter. Regardless, I will definitely get/make some sort of camera/lens/battery support system. If you can get 24" carbon fiber rods, your system may be big enough to be converted into a shoulder brace system. I like the looks of your other hardware, and if I can get Diaconu-branded equipment that fits my purposes for $160, I'll start saving my pennies. Marcus

November 17th, 2005, 07:17 AM	#10
Kin Kwan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 120	Michael, how is the Cavision one better? I think Dan's design looks pretty good and it's specifically for the Letus. Plus it is cheaper, it's $150 compared to $125. (I'm not sure what he meant by "for about $200" though.) Just curious to see why you think the other is better.

November 17th, 2005, 08:27 AM	#12
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	No need to argue (and possibly mislead other readers): a) Cavision does not offer a Letus rods support, right? (I offered it for under $100) b) Cavision does offer a camera plate/rods support, right? ($125-149) c) I offered them both for $200, right? d) I have battled the specific issues for MPIC for months. I have the solution (not offered by Cavision). e) On the outside, both MPIC and Letus share the same cylindrical shape (a different diameter I guess) I also offered to take it back if it does not work for you, right? One simple solution: buy both, try them both and send back the one that does not work. I also offered (separately) a long lens (or zoom) rods mount/support (under $ 100) to address the issue of "ability to focus using a gear while on a zoom lens like the 28-200 I have (or other brand) WITH OR WITHOUT a support mount on the lens!!! These are "problems" I had for some time and I HAD to address them. I aslo fully understand YOUR problem guys with an obscene/unsupported set-up in public. Now I offered the solution I have to you as well. I do not want to publish anymore explicit pictures until I have the parts in stock. I will have them in stock (that means manufacturing costs, CNC programming, etc) because IT WORKS for me here and I believe in what I do. New thread?

November 17th, 2005, 09:29 AM	#13
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	I don't think we need a new thread. I opened this question and this is exactly the information I am looking for. To answer why Dan's design may be better than other's, you need to go back to the original question. How to support the lens itself? The Cavision is more of a generic rod support and does not seem to offer any way to support a lens without getting in the way of the focus mechanism. Dan apparently has a solution to this issue. For these 35mm adapters, especially the Letus35 with it's plastic lens mount, support of the lens itself may sometimes be important. I think a great example is my 28-200mm zoom lens. Some people will want to have some of their original camcorder's capabilities at the same time they get shallow DOF. A 28-200mm lens is about as wide as a wide-angle adapter and about as much telephoto as one would want without a serious tripod. For run-and-gun shooting in sunlight, this lens would be perfect. Unfortunately, it is long and heavy so it may eventually damage the 35mm adapter. Also, it is practically covered by the focus ring with little room to support it's weight. To top it off, the lens changes length when zooming! This is quite a task for anything that you try to get to support this beast. Also, the cavision doesn't seem to support a 24" rod system that I desire. If this system works, it would probably be considered revolutionary. Oh, and I didn't mean to start any arguement. My "okay, I'll bite" remark is just an expression sometimes used as: "okay, you've partially convinced me, but since I'm skeptical...tell me more". I still want to see pictures, but I like Dan's other designs so maybe his solution is worth waiting for. Any other ideas? My idea is to build some sort of support that extends out the right side to the front of my VX200. There is a box on the right side of the lens (focusing motor?) that has no controls that may be a good place to run a monitor and lens support arm over. If the support goes off to one side, it wouldn't get in the way of the left hand operating the focus.