$7,000 stabilizers,steadicams >>> $1,000 or less HOW???

[Justine Haupt]

I think the site Jay Cofee linked (http://www.homebuiltstabilizers.com/) is great... I don't understand why someone didn't comment on it, it has pics and links for some really great homemade rigs.

This http://www.webbpickersgill.com/stabilizer/ is an XL2 stabilizer someone made that was linked from the homebuiltstabilzers site.

[Steev Dinkins]

Yes, http://www.homebuiltstabilizers.com is awesome... for those who can take that endeavor on, tackle it, and win the battle. Most people can not, so they look to purchase it from someone who can accomplish such an engineering feat, or already have and have brought it to market.

In short, I think what's being unspoken here is, "No way in hell I'm makin my own Steadicam."

[Eniola Akintoye]

Steev,
I am not looking for someone that is gonna sell or make this gadget for $1,000 or less.

Take for instance, the 35mm adapter could be sold for over $7,000 but now, we are able to get it for less than $300 bucks.

Same thing here, even though the engineering is much more than an adapter, I think we could have some guru that might be able to deliver something spectacular for less than $2,000 or something.

I know a mid-end stabilizer is being sold on ebay for $1499 but I just believe we might have pros. up in here that could do better at the same or for a lesser price.

SG35, M2, G35, Dan Follow Focus, and Letus35 has proved it can be done on other products, so why can't this one and besides, you never know unless you ask..

Am I right guys??????

[Charles Papert]

Originally Posted by Eniola Akintoye

Steev,
I am not looking for someone that is gonna sell or make this gadget for $1,000 or less... I think we could have some guru that might be able to deliver something spectacular for less than $2,000 or something.

In that case, you may want to revise the title of this thread that you created...?!

$1500 is an incredible price for a functional stabilizer. These are amazingly inexpensive times to be an indie filmmaker. If someone out there wants to devote their time and energy to designing, making and selling stabilizers for little or no profit out of their love of the craft, you might see something cheaper out there; in the meantime, I'd recommend practicing your handheld, work that skateboard dolly and save your dollars until you can buy a rig.

[Mike Teutsch]

The problem in this area can be summed up in one word, "Volume!"

I was in the industrial machine shop business for years and sold my shop about 4 years ago. We used to manufacture hundreds of items for different companies, most of which were far more difficult to manufacture. The biggest influence on price is just how many are you going to make.

The cost in terms of design, engineering, materials acquisition, tooling, machine programming and labor make producing anything in small quantities very expensive. Then after that is done, you would have to advertise and market it, package it, place it in the retailers hands and make sure that they have a high enough profit level so that they will even carry it, and most want about 50 to 100% mark-up. So if I sell it for $500 they want to sell it for $1000. This is just normal business. They have costs too!

We tend to think that if someone made your stabilizer for $1,000 that all would buy one, and a hundred thousand would be sold. That, sadly, is not the case. Some would shy away from an inexpensive one just because it did cost less. Some would still want others that are on the market, some would have brand loyalty such as we see expressed here all of the time. Some would not want to buy from an independent supplier. Some would bad mouth it for no reason and turn people off of it. Many would say, you make it like this, but why not make a version that is different like I want, which then changes the costs. And, in the end, not that many are sold. They would just about have to be made one at a time!!!!!!!

Right now you are seeing a lot of businesses starting by offering their products on ebay. The reason is that they have practically no advertising costs, and relatively low commissions to ebay. But then many would not buy it on ebay!

Believe me, I have thought seriously about buying a few machines and getting back into the business, after seeing the prices being asked for many of the items I wanted to buy. A lens adapter to put a Nikon lens on my XL, hundreds of dollars????? I used to make things like that for about $15 or less. But, do I want to get back to hassling with complaining customers, late paying retailers, employees that think they should be making $20/hours but can’t even show up to work and when there don’t know what they are doing and could care less, dealing with suppliers that don’t deliver on schedule!?!?!?!? Maybe not.

I recently threw together a track dolly for myself and a friend. They work great and I used it in my DV#4 movie. But if I started to make them for others, I know there would be many problems.

Maybe I will start making a few things, but if I do, I’m retired and will not have to support a bunch of employees and their families, and huge costs on my end either. The price on these items are way too high, but is the business there, or is it going to keep changing and cost too much to get into?

We will see.

Mike

[Frank Schoerner]

Originally Posted by Eniola Akintoye

Steev,
Take for instance, the 35mm adapter could be sold for over $7,000 but now, we are able to get it for less than $300 bucks.

Sorry i dont think so. No one of this $300 bucks adapters produced same quality (pictures) like the original. They all are miles away. But 99.99% all $300 adapter users have never see or use a original adapter, so they can not compare it. I do it, so i know it.

Similar stabilizers. Use a $1.500 and than a $7.000 one. The $1.000 look like a stabilzer but have a feeling like a cheap toy. I've known it to happen, too.

[Bill Porter]

Originally Posted by Frank Schoerner

Sorry i dont think so. No one of this $300 bucks adapters produced same quality (pictures) like the original. They all are miles away. But 99.99% all $300 adapter users have never see or use a original adapter, so they can not compare it. I do it, so i know it.

By "the original" if you mean P+S Technic Mini35, there are others here who have used it who will disagree with you.

[Charles Papert]

I haven't used the cheaper systems, so I can't speak on them, although I have heard several of their manufacturers say outright that the Mini35 is better, as one would expect. The Mini35 was designed as a professional piece of gear, and since that term is often bandied about as a puff-up-your-chest dividing point, I will define my useage here: it is built to tolerances and with a level of quality that is consistent with gear used for motion picture work. While the image quality that it produces is obviously the most important factor, it must also be robust enough to handle difficult environments, reliable, flexible and easy to configure as needed. In addition, it is supported by the manufacturer as well as established dealers (ZGC here in the U.S) who can be reached during business hours if a backup part or repairs are needed.

In the case of the various manufacturers of the competitive products, some of these conditions may be met but not all. For many DV filmmakers, this is a more than acceptable tradeoff for the substantially lower price. If the worst that can happen when your adaptor breaks on an indie project is that you simply reschedule or shoot around it, no biggie. When thousands of dollars are at stake for a given production day, this may not be a satisfactory option.

[Bill Porter]

I was thinking more of Dan Diaconu's posts (someone who HAS used both). Dan??

[Leigh Wanstead]

Hi Mike,

You are absolutely right.

Regards
Leigh

Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch

The problem in this area can be summed up in one word, "Volume!"

I was in the industrial machine shop business for years and sold my shop about 4 years ago. We used to manufacture hundreds of items for different companies, most of which were far more difficult to manufacture. The biggest influence on price is just how many are you going to make.

The cost in terms of design, engineering, materials acquisition, tooling, machine programming and labor make producing anything in small quantities very expensive. Then after that is done, you would have to advertise and market it, package it, place it in the retailers hands and make sure that they have a high enough profit level so that they will even carry it, and most want about 50 to 100% mark-up. So if I sell it for $500 they want to sell it for $1000. This is just normal business. They have costs too!

We tend to think that if someone made your stabilizer for $1,000 that all would buy one, and a hundred thousand would be sold. That, sadly, is not the case. Some would shy away from an inexpensive one just because it did cost less. Some would still want others that are on the market, some would have brand loyalty such as we see expressed here all of the time. Some would not want to buy from an independent supplier. Some would bad mouth it for no reason and turn people off of it. Many would say, you make it like this, but why not make a version that is different like I want, which then changes the costs. And, in the end, not that many are sold. They would just about have to be made one at a time!!!!!!!

Right now you are seeing a lot of businesses starting by offering their products on ebay. The reason is that they have practically no advertising costs, and relatively low commissions to ebay. But then many would not buy it on ebay!

Believe me, I have thought seriously about buying a few machines and getting back into the business, after seeing the prices being asked for many of the items I wanted to buy. A lens adapter to put a Nikon lens on my XL, hundreds of dollars????? I used to make things like that for about $15 or less. But, do I want to get back to hassling with complaining customers, late paying retailers, employees that think they should be making $20/hours but can’t even show up to work and when there don’t know what they are doing and could care less, dealing with suppliers that don’t deliver on schedule!?!?!?!? Maybe not.

I recently threw together a track dolly for myself and a friend. They work great and I used it in my DV#4 movie. But if I started to make them for others, I know there would be many problems.

Maybe I will start making a few things, but if I do, I’m retired and will not have to support a bunch of employees and their families, and huge costs on my end either. The price on these items are way too high, but is the business there, or is it going to keep changing and cost too much to get into?

We will see.

Mike