Gauging Interest (tft With Flip Function) at DVinfo.net

Nicholas Bartleet · October 25th, 2005, 04:46 AM

Hi there guys, I am gauging interest in an excellent quality very heavy duty, professional TFT field monitor 4x3 7", with a tough aluminium casing, BNC Connectors and standard phono type, with two composite video inputs, one audio Input, and one Video Output. The Monitor has an integrated flip function, and a headphone jack, with brightness, contrast and volume dials. The monitor is rugged, robust, simple to use with propper buttons and dials instead of silly menu systems.

The monitor would also come with a special battery connector, allowing you to connect your sony, panasonic or canon batteries to power the device.

It would also be provided with a hot shoe mount, to mount the camera on the acessory shoe of the camera.

It would also come with an svideo to composite connector, and a short 0.5m composite video cable with gold terminals to conect it to the camera.
It would also come with a sun shade.

The whole package would sell for around £350.00 ($620), however to sell all this gear for this price, i would need quite a lot of interest, becuase of the quantities i would have to buy. If i got a lot of interest, i could possible sell for quite a bit less too.

There is a small picture of the monitor on the equiptment part of my website.
http://www.pixelloft.com/equip.htm

There are also a few more pictures of it in use on this page:
http://www.pixelloft.com/3lflex.htm

Thanks, Nick

Leo Mandy · October 25th, 2005, 07:12 AM

I think it is a bit pricey considering that LCD can be had for under $100.00 in my local area, but then again, I am not sure if the LCD can flip like the one you suggest.

Nicholas Bartleet · October 25th, 2005, 07:29 AM

Thanks for the reply Mandy, but this isn't just a $100 lcd, this is a professional TFT monitor, with a robust aluminium housing, an adjustable monitor mount, and can be powered by your camcorder battery with a flip function built in. I know what you are saying, but its like comparing apples and oranges. I had a Lilliput TFT monitor before i bought this one, and the first one i had was faulty. I sent it back, and the second one i had was ok for a while, untill half way through shooting my short film, the riddle, it packed up and went all fuzzy and distorted. Nebtek do a similar product for about the same price, but it isn't a professional monitor, it is a automotive lcd, with a few modifications.

some specs
1152x234 resolution
300cd/m2 Brightness
150 to 1 contrast ratio

Soeren Mueller · October 25th, 2005, 07:52 AM

Hey Nick.. at first I wanted to post that it sounds quite interesting... but 1152x234 "resolution" equals to 384x234 "real" (pixel) res which is quite low in my book. I found a cheap automotive 8" with 800x600 real pixels which is really nice to have - esp. when focusing with a 35mm adapter. However of course it's missing the heavy duty alu housing and battery adapter.
If only these features could be combined somehow *sigh* ... afaik Redrock Micro is just about to offer some customized field TFT...

But £350 is just too much imho for such a low resolution. If it would have a higher res I would be tempted.. ;)

Nicholas Bartleet · October 25th, 2005, 08:59 AM

Soeren, i'm not sure i understand your point regarding a 35mm adapter. From my experiance, it is easier to focus with a 35mm adapter than without one, so why is is "especially" important to have greater resolution when using an adapter than without.

I have used the monitor on a couple of shoots now, and it is incredibly functional and tough, and makes focussing a doddle.

Your points are well taken regarding cheap automotive LCD screens, however as i said before, its like apples and oranges. This isn't a cheap automotive screen. It is a robust aluminium clad field monitor with BNC connectors, and rugged functionallity.

The LCD itself, i could sell with a DC adapter and visor for £225.00 if i can buy a decent volume. The LCD alone, with nothing else is selling at http://www.cke.co.uk/acatalog/LCD.html which is one of the uk's largest broadcast equiptment sales companies for £411.00 including vat. I just thought i would offer everyone what i thought was a really good deal.
It is a quality Unit, and i gues as the old saying goes, you get what you pay for.

Soeren Mueller · October 25th, 2005, 10:14 AM

Well if you have a 35mm lens wide opened up for example the focus is sometimes within millimeters! And if you want to have something exactly in focus... it's just not that easy when you have a low res monitor. On a low res monitor of course there is a broader focus range which produces exactly the same output on the monitor because the focus change would only be noticable within very few pixels... of course you can still focus the "traditional way" (meaning not by eye but by distance measurement)

Of course you get what you pay for.. however the cheap one I got is more rugged than I thought it would be... and it has a nice plain black housing.. of course no nice knobs etc. ... can't have everything for cheap ;)
But I don't want to pay so much for a low res screen. I really don't get why these things cost so much... overpriced imho >8-)

Noah Yuan-Vogel · October 25th, 2005, 10:20 AM

I think he is referring to the precision with which one must focus when dealing with images with very shallow DOF and manual lenses. It does make a big difference when soft focus is a matter of a 2% focus turn as opposed to deep DOF and pulling focus with autofocus/zoom.

Jun Tang · October 25th, 2005, 11:00 AM

Nicholas,

Good looking out. $620 USD is quite alot for such a small monitor.

Look at this...
http://xenarc.com/product/700y.html

larger 7"
more resolution 800 x 480 pixels
and cheaper.

Taking that into consideration...I will have that I am not interested.

But out of curiousity

a) what is the quantity that you have to buy?
b) is the 35mm adapter a DIY redrock?
Also....I like your website. Keep up the good work.

Soeren Mueller · October 25th, 2005, 11:09 AM

Hey Jun.. following me around again, eh?! :-D

Yeah the Xenarc is "only" a "pimped" automotive TFT again... similar to the thing I have. Jun I'm just not sure right now - did you buy the Xenarc or another one (or none yet)? How is it?

And yes.. Nicks site looks quite slick or "smooooth" :) as do his videos...

Jun Tang · October 25th, 2005, 11:14 AM

Soeren

Yes...I am follow you. I guess you just leave a messy paper trail. ;)

Yeah, I have the Xenarc 700YV....I like it. Of course I would go with more resolution...but what can you say when you are use to the resolution of a computer monitor then you look at 800x400 resolution.

I think resolution is the most important thing on the tft...everything else the user can modify...from battery adapters....to flipping it with an israeli arm like Kelly Wilbur.

The resolution we just can't mod.

Soeren Mueller · October 25th, 2005, 11:22 AM

Yeah that's right.. exactly what I think. And the "pro" TFTs that have high res cost >1k USD usually! :-(

So for the moment I will stay with the 800x600 one I have...
Does the Xenarc have S-Video In by the way? And Nick.. does the monitor you mentioned have it?
That would give a slightly better picture... I have mine only connected with composite "standard" video but it's supposed to support S-Video too.. but I can't find a connector for it... ;)

Nicholas Bartleet · October 25th, 2005, 11:23 AM

Ok guys, thanks for the feedback, and your comments abot my site, its much appreciated.

i get the impression that this is maybe not that appealing. I had just thought that becuase i could sell the unit for pretty much half its current retail price, there would be a fairly high demand.

I guess this is a quality/resolution performance battle, and performance seems to be winning.

I love the flip function, and the fact that you dont need a $200 israli arm to hang it from. Like I said, i had a bad couple of experiances with lilliput car tft's and this monitor was for me a refreshing change, but i get your point about resolution.

This monitor does look and function very professionally though, so I hope they update the panel with something a little higher on the resolution side, and then ill come back to you.

Cheers, Nick

Jun Tang · October 25th, 2005, 11:27 AM

On the RedRock forum Brett has a cool DIY project for the Xenarc...which I order the parts so you don't have to use the $200 israeli arm.

Brett is most def a DIYer. I would be surprise if he didn't live in the house he built.

Soeren....no S-vid. By the way, which monitor do you have?

Soeren Mueller · October 26th, 2005, 03:57 AM

Hey Jun.. where in the RR forum is this DIY project?! Is it in the DIY part of the forum? I think I don't have access to this... :-(
(dunno why... I think when you have bought their product you should be able to access everything ;)

I got this TFT:
http://www.hami-lcd.com/product01.asp?ID=10

Although I got it from a car TFT dealer in my country and didn't import it directly myself. ;)
It seems quite popular amongst DIY projector builders here because it's panel seems to be quite good.

Kurt August · October 27th, 2005, 10:47 AM

Has anyone noticed how sharp the image is on the epson p-2000?
It's not exactly the device we need, but it shows how sharp a small lcd can be at this point. it's 3.8" and 680x480 pixels. And it looks better.

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/c...s&oid=49164278

What's more interesting.

http://www.sanyo-epson.com/e/

That's combined forces, folks

They now sell just the lcd's. So if someone managed to hook on a video card, things could become very interesting, and perhaps not even at a stellar price.

We all want underscan, flipped screens, battery powered and easy solutions right? So there you go, start a business!

Right now, I'm thinking of ordering the Hami (I'm also in PAL country), because I don't believe anyone can pull this of soon. But If someone manages to build be a good device with all the things needed, at a sub 600 price point, I'm sold.

Or does anyone have more information about Redrock's Revolution?

October 25th, 2005, 04:46 AM	#1
Nicholas Bartleet Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: upton uk Posts: 104	Gauging Interest (tft With Flip Function) Hi there guys, I am gauging interest in an excellent quality very heavy duty, professional TFT field monitor 4x3 7", with a tough aluminium casing, BNC Connectors and standard phono type, with two composite video inputs, one audio Input, and one Video Output. The Monitor has an integrated flip function, and a headphone jack, with brightness, contrast and volume dials. The monitor is rugged, robust, simple to use with propper buttons and dials instead of silly menu systems. The monitor would also come with a special battery connector, allowing you to connect your sony, panasonic or canon batteries to power the device. It would also be provided with a hot shoe mount, to mount the camera on the acessory shoe of the camera. It would also come with an svideo to composite connector, and a short 0.5m composite video cable with gold terminals to conect it to the camera. It would also come with a sun shade. The whole package would sell for around £350.00 ($620), however to sell all this gear for this price, i would need quite a lot of interest, becuase of the quantities i would have to buy. If i got a lot of interest, i could possible sell for quite a bit less too. There is a small picture of the monitor on the equiptment part of my website. http://www.pixelloft.com/equip.htm There are also a few more pictures of it in use on this page: http://www.pixelloft.com/3lflex.htm Thanks, Nick

October 27th, 2005, 10:47 AM	#15
Kurt August Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 94	Just an idea. Has anyone noticed how sharp the image is on the epson p-2000? It's not exactly the device we need, but it shows how sharp a small lcd can be at this point. it's 3.8" and 680x480 pixels. And it looks better. http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/c...s&oid=49164278 What's more interesting. http://www.sanyo-epson.com/e/ That's combined forces, folks They now sell just the lcd's. So if someone managed to hook on a video card, things could become very interesting, and perhaps not even at a stellar price. We all want underscan, flipped screens, battery powered and easy solutions right? So there you go, start a business! Right now, I'm thinking of ordering the Hami (I'm also in PAL country), because I don't believe anyone can pull this of soon. But If someone manages to build be a good device with all the things needed, at a sub 600 price point, I'm sold. Or does anyone have more information about Redrock's Revolution?

October 25th, 2005, 07:12 AM	#2
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	I think it is a bit pricey considering that LCD can be had for under $100.00 in my local area, but then again, I am not sure if the LCD can flip like the one you suggest.

October 25th, 2005, 07:29 AM	#3
Nicholas Bartleet Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: upton uk Posts: 104	Thanks for the reply Mandy, but this isn't just a $100 lcd, this is a professional TFT monitor, with a robust aluminium housing, an adjustable monitor mount, and can be powered by your camcorder battery with a flip function built in. I know what you are saying, but its like comparing apples and oranges. I had a Lilliput TFT monitor before i bought this one, and the first one i had was faulty. I sent it back, and the second one i had was ok for a while, untill half way through shooting my short film, the riddle, it packed up and went all fuzzy and distorted. Nebtek do a similar product for about the same price, but it isn't a professional monitor, it is a automotive lcd, with a few modifications. some specs 1152x234 resolution 300cd/m2 Brightness 150 to 1 contrast ratio

October 25th, 2005, 07:52 AM	#4
Soeren Mueller Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Düsseldorf, Germany / Denver, CO Posts: 137	Hey Nick.. at first I wanted to post that it sounds quite interesting... but 1152x234 "resolution" equals to 384x234 "real" (pixel) res which is quite low in my book. I found a cheap automotive 8" with 800x600 real pixels which is really nice to have - esp. when focusing with a 35mm adapter. However of course it's missing the heavy duty alu housing and battery adapter. If only these features could be combined somehow sigh ... afaik Redrock Micro is just about to offer some customized field TFT... But £350 is just too much imho for such a low resolution. If it would have a higher res I would be tempted.. ;)

October 25th, 2005, 08:59 AM	#5
Nicholas Bartleet Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: upton uk Posts: 104	Soeren, i'm not sure i understand your point regarding a 35mm adapter. From my experiance, it is easier to focus with a 35mm adapter than without one, so why is is "especially" important to have greater resolution when using an adapter than without. I have used the monitor on a couple of shoots now, and it is incredibly functional and tough, and makes focussing a doddle. Your points are well taken regarding cheap automotive LCD screens, however as i said before, its like apples and oranges. This isn't a cheap automotive screen. It is a robust aluminium clad field monitor with BNC connectors, and rugged functionallity. The LCD itself, i could sell with a DC adapter and visor for £225.00 if i can buy a decent volume. The LCD alone, with nothing else is selling at http://www.cke.co.uk/acatalog/LCD.html which is one of the uk's largest broadcast equiptment sales companies for £411.00 including vat. I just thought i would offer everyone what i thought was a really good deal. It is a quality Unit, and i gues as the old saying goes, you get what you pay for.

October 25th, 2005, 10:14 AM	#6
Soeren Mueller Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Düsseldorf, Germany / Denver, CO Posts: 137	Well if you have a 35mm lens wide opened up for example the focus is sometimes within millimeters! And if you want to have something exactly in focus... it's just not that easy when you have a low res monitor. On a low res monitor of course there is a broader focus range which produces exactly the same output on the monitor because the focus change would only be noticable within very few pixels... of course you can still focus the "traditional way" (meaning not by eye but by distance measurement) Of course you get what you pay for.. however the cheap one I got is more rugged than I thought it would be... and it has a nice plain black housing.. of course no nice knobs etc. ... can't have everything for cheap ;) But I don't want to pay so much for a low res screen. I really don't get why these things cost so much... overpriced imho >8-)

October 25th, 2005, 10:20 AM	#7
Noah Yuan-Vogel Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New York City Posts: 613	I think he is referring to the precision with which one must focus when dealing with images with very shallow DOF and manual lenses. It does make a big difference when soft focus is a matter of a 2% focus turn as opposed to deep DOF and pulling focus with autofocus/zoom.

October 25th, 2005, 11:00 AM	#8
Jun Tang Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: West LA Posts: 135	Nicholas, Good looking out. $620 USD is quite alot for such a small monitor. Look at this... http://xenarc.com/product/700y.html larger 7" more resolution 800 x 480 pixels and cheaper. Taking that into consideration...I will have that I am not interested. But out of curiousity a) what is the quantity that you have to buy? b) is the 35mm adapter a DIY redrock? Also....I like your website. Keep up the good work.

October 25th, 2005, 11:09 AM	#9
Soeren Mueller Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Düsseldorf, Germany / Denver, CO Posts: 137	Hey Jun.. following me around again, eh?! :-D Yeah the Xenarc is "only" a "pimped" automotive TFT again... similar to the thing I have. Jun I'm just not sure right now - did you buy the Xenarc or another one (or none yet)? How is it? And yes.. Nicks site looks quite slick or "smooooth" :) as do his videos...

October 25th, 2005, 11:14 AM	#10
Jun Tang Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: West LA Posts: 135	Soeren Yes...I am follow you. I guess you just leave a messy paper trail. ;) Yeah, I have the Xenarc 700YV....I like it. Of course I would go with more resolution...but what can you say when you are use to the resolution of a computer monitor then you look at 800x400 resolution. I think resolution is the most important thing on the tft...everything else the user can modify...from battery adapters....to flipping it with an israeli arm like Kelly Wilbur. The resolution we just can't mod.

October 25th, 2005, 11:22 AM	#11
Soeren Mueller Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Düsseldorf, Germany / Denver, CO Posts: 137	Yeah that's right.. exactly what I think. And the "pro" TFTs that have high res cost >1k USD usually! :-( So for the moment I will stay with the 800x600 one I have... Does the Xenarc have S-Video In by the way? And Nick.. does the monitor you mentioned have it? That would give a slightly better picture... I have mine only connected with composite "standard" video but it's supposed to support S-Video too.. but I can't find a connector for it... ;)

October 25th, 2005, 11:23 AM	#12
Nicholas Bartleet Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: upton uk Posts: 104	Ok guys, thanks for the feedback, and your comments abot my site, its much appreciated. i get the impression that this is maybe not that appealing. I had just thought that becuase i could sell the unit for pretty much half its current retail price, there would be a fairly high demand. I guess this is a quality/resolution performance battle, and performance seems to be winning. I love the flip function, and the fact that you dont need a $200 israli arm to hang it from. Like I said, i had a bad couple of experiances with lilliput car tft's and this monitor was for me a refreshing change, but i get your point about resolution. This monitor does look and function very professionally though, so I hope they update the panel with something a little higher on the resolution side, and then ill come back to you. Cheers, Nick

October 25th, 2005, 11:27 AM	#13
Jun Tang Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: West LA Posts: 135	On the RedRock forum Brett has a cool DIY project for the Xenarc...which I order the parts so you don't have to use the $200 israeli arm. Brett is most def a DIYer. I would be surprise if he didn't live in the house he built. Soeren....no S-vid. By the way, which monitor do you have?

October 26th, 2005, 03:57 AM	#14
Soeren Mueller Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Düsseldorf, Germany / Denver, CO Posts: 137	Hey Jun.. where in the RR forum is this DIY project?! Is it in the DIY part of the forum? I think I don't have access to this... :-( (dunno why... I think when you have bought their product you should be able to access everything ;) I got this TFT: http://www.hami-lcd.com/product01.asp?ID=10 Although I got it from a car TFT dealer in my country and didn't import it directly myself. ;) It seems quite popular amongst DIY projector builders here because it's panel seems to be quite good.