New method for spinning real Ground Glass

Kurt August · September 18th, 2005, 09:42 AM

Thanks for posting the full frames. Quite sharp! I've saved it as a reference file...

Which lens did you use? Do you have a whole bunch of them to test?

Very nice work indeed!

Wayne Kinney · September 18th, 2005, 10:23 AM

Thanks Kurt,
Im using a Nikon Nikkor -S 50mm F1.4 lens, its the only lens i have right now, planning on gotting more soon.

Wayne.

Bill Porter · September 18th, 2005, 10:56 AM

Don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, but, Wayne, will you do a test movie and close up the aperture? Maybe in steps? I'm very curious to see what happens when the aperture is stopped down.

Thanks!

Wayne Kinney · September 18th, 2005, 11:08 AM

Bill,
Good idea, thats the real test, huh?:D Hehe, ill get to it.

Wayne.

Kurt August · September 18th, 2005, 11:14 AM

"Im using a Nikon Nikkor -S 50mm F1.4 lens"

Does it always have so much barrel distorition? Or is that the camera?

Secretly, I hope it's the camera, since I've just ordered the same lens... Having a fast lens is nice and I can hardly image a 50mm lens so distorted.

Leo Mandy · September 18th, 2005, 11:20 AM

Looks good Wayne - I was thinking about moving to glass as well because of the abberation I am getting from plastic. I daresay you will see micro35 probably moving that way shortly as well! What kind of glass did you end up using? Museum?

Wayne Kinney · September 18th, 2005, 11:36 AM

Yeah glass is way better optically then plastic. Not sure if the micro35 will make the move or not....Oh, its a 1.5mm glass, not sure of the type.

Thanks,
Wayne.

Bill Porter · September 18th, 2005, 04:13 PM

Oh it's not even so much the real test (your footage seems to be quite terrific), so much as satisfying my own curiosity. I am a static GG kind of guy so I'm so curious to see what on earth does happen when you shut the 35mm lens' aperture with a spinning one!

Wayne Kinney · September 18th, 2005, 05:36 PM

Bill,
Yeah, well thats 'suppose' to be 1 advantage of a spinner, so we'll see tomorrow.

Kurt, its not the SLR or the camera creating the distortion, its the condensor lens, its because the distance from GG was not properly set. All is fine now, shell prove tomorrow.

Thanks,
Wayne.

Wayne Kinney · September 19th, 2005, 08:45 AM

Ok guys, got some new test footage up, so the old footage is now here (kindly hosted by Bill Porter):

http://tinyurl.com/cgazu (right click and save as)

The New footage is here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.k...ptertest02.mov (Bill Porter, would you be so kind as to upload this clip to your webspace aslo?)

Tested both different aperture settings on the SLR and different shutter speeds on the cam. As you can see, as the aperture is closed, it starts to vignette slightly around the edges. Again, this is due to setting up the proper distance between the elements. I have setup the condensor the correct distance from the GG, so no more barrel distortion, but there is a sweet spot with distance from condensor to camcorder as to get no vignetting. Is the vignetting acceptable? NOT AT ALL. It needs to be perfect, quality is top of the list, so this is my next adujstment.

I set the shutter speed in increasements from 1/50th to 1/8000th, even at 1/8000th you can only slightly start to see the glass spinning in the window.

My aim it to take every artifact and limitation of these adapters like grain, vignetting, distortion, light loss, limited aperture use, limited shutter speed use, and get past them one by one. I think I have nearly passed all except light loss, which is around 1 - 2 stops light loss.

Anyhow, let me know what you think of the footage. Also, please let me know what tests I can do next for you all to see, lets test this baby;)

Thanks,
Wayne.

Bill Porter · September 19th, 2005, 09:16 AM

Here ya go, my friend:

http://tinyurl.com/aqpaf

Now that is a neat test. Thanks for doing that; I was the only one who asked to see it with the aperture closed, but I know literally hundreds of people are going to download it. My server stats prove it! :)

Your results are ridiculously impressive. You make it look easy!

Keep it up!

P.S. some of the folks around here (thankfully not me) are on slow connections. Will your file size be smaller if you delete all audio? Some people might want that. Even though Simon and the boys have still got it!

Wayne Kinney · September 19th, 2005, 09:34 AM

Bill,
Thanks, im getting there dont you think?:D
No, the audio is compressed so much it only takes like 200K of the file. I lowered the video frame rate as much as i could as not to get compression artifacts. Maybe i'll try a little lower next time.

Thanks for hosting man, im just getting some really tight close ups now, with EXTREME DOF, by adjusting the flange focal length further away fromt he GG to experiement, makes some pretty neat shots, ill show you in about 30 minutes:D

Wayne.

Wayne Kinney · September 19th, 2005, 10:46 AM

OK,
Here are the new links for the 2 footage files:

First: http://tinyurl.com/cgazu

Second: http://tinyurl.com/aqpaf

Ok, I have done some extreme close up extreme DOF shots. These were done buy moving the GG distance away from the lens, thereby allowing you to focus on objust just MM away from the lens, with extremly shallow DOF. It was just for fun to see what the results would be, all shot through my adapter.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup02.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup03.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup04.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup05.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup06.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup07.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup08.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup09.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup10.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup11.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup12.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup13.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup14.jpg

And I also did a test to try and get the cam to see the grain spinning. Its not untill I shut the SLR aperture all the way to F16 and put shutter speed to 1/2000th that you started to notice the spinning glass. BTW, it looks as though the glass is spinning very slowly, but that just an illusion, kinda the same thing as a car wheel look like its turning backwards when you look at it at a certain speed.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/GG Grain.mov

Again remember these are shot with my cheap 1 chip/ccd panasonic. Let me know what you all think,

Wayne.

Bill Porter · September 19th, 2005, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Kinney

Bill,
Thanks, im getting there dont you think?:D

I'd say you're there, in fact, you're more there than Daves Spi, from what I've seen from both of you guys (ok, there are two Daves, who shared one name). Your footage sure looks sharp with no fuzziness or fresnel-like marks.

Super nice job!

Wayne Kinney · September 19th, 2005, 12:47 PM

Thanks bill,

I think my adapters performance come from 2 main factors, 1: I treat my ground glass with my 'secret ingredient';), which improves light transmittance and gives much more contrast and richness to the image, without effecting diffusion properties. Also, proper/accurate setup of condensor lens.

I have now made a new thread announcing my commercial unit thats going to be available buy the end of this month. IM asking £150 including 15mm rod support, but no macro.

Thanks,
Wayne.

September 18th, 2005, 09:42 AM	#61
Kurt August Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 94	Still Thanks for posting the full frames. Quite sharp! I've saved it as a reference file... Which lens did you use? Do you have a whole bunch of them to test? Very nice work indeed!

September 18th, 2005, 11:14 AM	#65
Kurt August Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 94	Lens "Im using a Nikon Nikkor -S 50mm F1.4 lens" Does it always have so much barrel distorition? Or is that the camera? Secretly, I hope it's the camera, since I've just ordered the same lens... Having a fast lens is nice and I can hardly image a 50mm lens so distorted.

September 19th, 2005, 08:45 AM	#70
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	New footage up!!! Ok guys, got some new test footage up, so the old footage is now here (kindly hosted by Bill Porter): http://tinyurl.com/cgazu (right click and save as) The New footage is here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.k...ptertest02.mov (Bill Porter, would you be so kind as to upload this clip to your webspace aslo?) Tested both different aperture settings on the SLR and different shutter speeds on the cam. As you can see, as the aperture is closed, it starts to vignette slightly around the edges. Again, this is due to setting up the proper distance between the elements. I have setup the condensor the correct distance from the GG, so no more barrel distortion, but there is a sweet spot with distance from condensor to camcorder as to get no vignetting. Is the vignetting acceptable? NOT AT ALL. It needs to be perfect, quality is top of the list, so this is my next adujstment. I set the shutter speed in increasements from 1/50th to 1/8000th, even at 1/8000th you can only slightly start to see the glass spinning in the window. My aim it to take every artifact and limitation of these adapters like grain, vignetting, distortion, light loss, limited aperture use, limited shutter speed use, and get past them one by one. I think I have nearly passed all except light loss, which is around 1 - 2 stops light loss. Anyhow, let me know what you think of the footage. Also, please let me know what tests I can do next for you all to see, lets test this baby;) Thanks, Wayne.

September 19th, 2005, 10:46 AM	#73
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	OK, Here are the new links for the 2 footage files: First: http://tinyurl.com/cgazu Second: http://tinyurl.com/aqpaf Ok, I have done some extreme close up extreme DOF shots. These were done buy moving the GG distance away from the lens, thereby allowing you to focus on objust just MM away from the lens, with extremly shallow DOF. It was just for fun to see what the results would be, all shot through my adapter. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup02.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup03.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup04.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup05.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup06.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup07.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup08.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup09.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup10.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup11.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup12.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup13.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/closeup14.jpg And I also did a test to try and get the cam to see the grain spinning. Its not untill I shut the SLR aperture all the way to F16 and put shutter speed to 1/2000th that you started to notice the spinning glass. BTW, it looks as though the glass is spinning very slowly, but that just an illusion, kinda the same thing as a car wheel look like its turning backwards when you look at it at a certain speed. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wayne.kinney/GG Grain.mov Again remember these are shot with my cheap 1 chip/ccd panasonic. Let me know what you all think, Wayne. Last edited by Wayne Kinney; September 19th, 2005 at 11:28 AM.

September 18th, 2005, 10:23 AM	#62
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Thanks Kurt, Im using a Nikon Nikkor -S 50mm F1.4 lens, its the only lens i have right now, planning on gotting more soon. Wayne.

September 18th, 2005, 10:56 AM	#63
Bill Porter Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ventura, California, USA Posts: 751	Don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, but, Wayne, will you do a test movie and close up the aperture? Maybe in steps? I'm very curious to see what happens when the aperture is stopped down. Thanks!

September 18th, 2005, 11:08 AM	#64
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Bill, Good idea, thats the real test, huh?:D Hehe, ill get to it. Wayne.

September 18th, 2005, 11:20 AM	#66
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Looks good Wayne - I was thinking about moving to glass as well because of the abberation I am getting from plastic. I daresay you will see micro35 probably moving that way shortly as well! What kind of glass did you end up using? Museum?

September 18th, 2005, 11:36 AM	#67
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Yeah glass is way better optically then plastic. Not sure if the micro35 will make the move or not....Oh, its a 1.5mm glass, not sure of the type. Thanks, Wayne.

September 18th, 2005, 04:13 PM	#68
Bill Porter Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ventura, California, USA Posts: 751	Oh it's not even so much the real test (your footage seems to be quite terrific), so much as satisfying my own curiosity. I am a static GG kind of guy so I'm so curious to see what on earth does happen when you shut the 35mm lens' aperture with a spinning one!

September 18th, 2005, 05:36 PM	#69
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Bill, Yeah, well thats 'suppose' to be 1 advantage of a spinner, so we'll see tomorrow. Kurt, its not the SLR or the camera creating the distortion, its the condensor lens, its because the distance from GG was not properly set. All is fine now, shell prove tomorrow. Thanks, Wayne.

September 19th, 2005, 09:16 AM	#71
Bill Porter Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ventura, California, USA Posts: 751	Here ya go, my friend: http://tinyurl.com/aqpaf Now that is a neat test. Thanks for doing that; I was the only one who asked to see it with the aperture closed, but I know literally hundreds of people are going to download it. My server stats prove it! :) Your results are ridiculously impressive. You make it look easy! Keep it up! P.S. some of the folks around here (thankfully not me) are on slow connections. Will your file size be smaller if you delete all audio? Some people might want that. Even though Simon and the boys have still got it!

September 19th, 2005, 09:34 AM	#72
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Bill, Thanks, im getting there dont you think?:D No, the audio is compressed so much it only takes like 200K of the file. I lowered the video frame rate as much as i could as not to get compression artifacts. Maybe i'll try a little lower next time. Thanks for hosting man, im just getting some really tight close ups now, with EXTREME DOF, by adjusting the flange focal length further away fromt he GG to experiement, makes some pretty neat shots, ill show you in about 30 minutes:D Wayne.

September 19th, 2005, 12:47 PM	#75
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Thanks bill, I think my adapters performance come from 2 main factors, 1: I treat my ground glass with my 'secret ingredient';), which improves light transmittance and gives much more contrast and richness to the image, without effecting diffusion properties. Also, proper/accurate setup of condensor lens. I have now made a new thread announcing my commercial unit thats going to be available buy the end of this month. IM asking £150 including 15mm rod support, but no macro. Thanks, Wayne.