XL2 for my 35mm adaptor? at DVinfo.net

Anders Floe · September 1st, 2005, 12:18 PM

I just finished building my osc. 35mm adaptor, which works greater than I ever hoped for. Very small grain, low loss of light and silent enough. But my XL-1 is really not good enough for what I want to do. I have been thinking about buying the XL2...but the XL-2 is as you properly know dv...not hdv or even dvcam. How much image information is lost by using normal dv? I have bought the mini35 macrolens for the xl-1 which I want to reuse since it cost about 1200 euros which makes me want to go with the xl. So my questions are these: Do you suspect that canon will release an XL-2s within a year with dvcam or hdv? and is hdv really so much better?

Thanks

-Anders

Ben Winter · September 1st, 2005, 05:43 PM

One of the main limitations of DV video is it's horrible resolution (about 500 lines) compared to film's (about 4000 lines). HD video is just that much closer (I don't know how many lines but it's more towards 4000 than it is towards 500) towards getting the great look of film. There's no question that HD is the future of cameras (Consumer camcorders, at least).

However, since HD video is more detailed, it's much more likely to be sensitive to things like grain from ground glass, even if that is vibrating. It's inevitable that a better SLR DV adapter will have to be specially conceived for HD cameras.

Bill Porter · September 1st, 2005, 06:15 PM

Academy aperture is actually just under 3,000, not 4,000. HD is of course 1080. So it is not a lot closer toward 4000 than 500. However, because of film-to-film generation loss, poor projection quality (from such factors as simple as turning up the lamp brightness on the projectors), and forced limited print contrast range of from 6 to 8 stops, the 1920x1080 8 or 10 bit capabilities of high definition video converted to 35mm print film can be indistinguishable and thus quite useful for filmmakers who still want a feature film print release.

But, you can still do quite well with miniDV, including your XL-1. Evidence of this is that the visual effects industry has been working at about 1500 lines of resolution for years. And, hundreds of films are shot on 16mm and miniDV movies and blown up for feature film release. Some people (snobs in my opinion) may say such films "fall apart" in the theaters but the moviegoer who is not a film or camera buff doesn't leave the theater thinking about any perceived resolution loss.

Besides, what are you doing with your XL-1? There have been some really nice looking films shot on XL-1's.

Michael Maier · September 1st, 2005, 08:18 PM

Hey Anders, are you mounting your adapter over the stock lens or directly to the XL's lens mount like the P+S mini35?

I think you would sure see some gain on switching to a XL2, even if not as much as if you go HDV.

Anders Floe · September 2nd, 2005, 09:23 AM

Thanks for the feedback guys!

I think that I will go with the XL-2...But I would be really annoyed if the XL-2s was realeased in a couple of months. But then again the XL-2 has more than twice the amount of pixels compared to the XL-1 and 28 days later didn't look all that bad.

To Michael: I attach it directly onto the XL-1 thereby loosing less F stops and also getting a better image. Actually I think that my adaptor lets in more light with a nikon 50mm F1,4 - than the stock canon lens.....

Anders Floe · September 3rd, 2005, 08:17 AM

I have also been looking at the JVC GY-HD100. I think I should be able to convert my relaylens to fit it as well. But what are your thought upon that camera compared to the XL-2. In Denmark where I live the two cameras cost the same. If I were to import a pal GY-HD100. Where would you recommend me buying it?

Michael Maier · September 3rd, 2005, 11:13 AM

Can you post a link to a pic of your rig? What type of relay lens are you using? How do you attach it to the XL1's mount?

About your HD100 question, if they cost the same over there, I would go with the HD100. You still have all the XL2 features plus 720p. Just my opinion.
by the way, how much a HD100 cost over there?

Anders Floe · September 3rd, 2005, 04:30 PM

The JVC is about 5700 $ without tax....same as the XL-2.

I just uploaded some images for your viewing pleasue ;-)

http://www.geocities.com/afsproductions/index.html

Michael Maier · September 3rd, 2005, 04:50 PM

Hey, it looks pretty good. I can't see what lens you are using for relay and how you attached the relay straight to the XL mount. Could you elaborate on that?
Is that 5700 Dollars or Euros? Thanks.

Bill Porter · September 3rd, 2005, 07:21 PM

Are the JVC's already available in Europe and/or Japan?

Anders Floe · September 7th, 2005, 09:07 AM

I've just ordered a JVC GY-HD100 and they said that it would arrive about the 20th.

To Michael: The price was in dollars. I actually bought the official Mini35 relaylens which goes straight on the camera....

But now I'll be switching to JVC...so it worn't fit :-( I talked to P+S teknik and they told me that I would need to buy a relaylens for the JVC which cost 1000 euros....arghh. I'm pretty sure that the mini35 relaylens is just a closeuplens in a holster which fits the XL-1...so if they would just let me buy a holster for the JVC....

Can anyone give me some good advise??? Is it possible to get a Canon XL to JVC GY-HD100 converter????

Thanks

Michael Maier · September 7th, 2005, 10:24 AM

It would make sense if they were the same lens, only with a different mount, since they are both 1/3" cameras. Maybe a good machine shop could convert the mount for you. I don't think there's a XL to HD100 converter on the market.
Is the lens a 50mm 35mm lens? What's the minimum focus distance? Do you still have to use an achromatic or condenser lens?

Quyen Le · September 7th, 2005, 10:44 AM

I think I will be the first one to make this adapter, it's on my list to do, please stay tune and when it's available, it will be at my website, thanks.

Quyen

Anders Floe · September 11th, 2005, 05:21 AM

Anyone know where I could get a hold of a bayonet mount as the one on the mini35 which connects to the relaylens?

Bill Porter · September 11th, 2005, 06:38 AM

Which bayonet? Nikon, Canon FD, Canon New FD, Canon EF, Pentax K, or... ?

September 1st, 2005, 12:18 PM	#1
Anders Floe Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 91	XL2 for my 35mm adaptor? I just finished building my osc. 35mm adaptor, which works greater than I ever hoped for. Very small grain, low loss of light and silent enough. But my XL-1 is really not good enough for what I want to do. I have been thinking about buying the XL2...but the XL-2 is as you properly know dv...not hdv or even dvcam. How much image information is lost by using normal dv? I have bought the mini35 macrolens for the xl-1 which I want to reuse since it cost about 1200 euros which makes me want to go with the xl. So my questions are these: Do you suspect that canon will release an XL-2s within a year with dvcam or hdv? and is hdv really so much better? Thanks -Anders

September 1st, 2005, 05:43 PM	#2
Ben Winter Trustee Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 1,675 Images: 1	One of the main limitations of DV video is it's horrible resolution (about 500 lines) compared to film's (about 4000 lines). HD video is just that much closer (I don't know how many lines but it's more towards 4000 than it is towards 500) towards getting the great look of film. There's no question that HD is the future of cameras (Consumer camcorders, at least). However, since HD video is more detailed, it's much more likely to be sensitive to things like grain from ground glass, even if that is vibrating. It's inevitable that a better SLR DV adapter will have to be specially conceived for HD cameras. __________________ BenWinter.com

September 7th, 2005, 10:44 AM	#13
Quyen Le Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 356	I think I will be the first one to make this adapter, it's on my list to do, please stay tune and when it's available, it will be at my website, thanks. Quyen __________________ Affordable Adapter http://www.adapterplace.com

September 1st, 2005, 06:15 PM	#3
Bill Porter Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ventura, California, USA Posts: 751	Academy aperture is actually just under 3,000, not 4,000. HD is of course 1080. So it is not a lot closer toward 4000 than 500. However, because of film-to-film generation loss, poor projection quality (from such factors as simple as turning up the lamp brightness on the projectors), and forced limited print contrast range of from 6 to 8 stops, the 1920x1080 8 or 10 bit capabilities of high definition video converted to 35mm print film can be indistinguishable and thus quite useful for filmmakers who still want a feature film print release. But, you can still do quite well with miniDV, including your XL-1. Evidence of this is that the visual effects industry has been working at about 1500 lines of resolution for years. And, hundreds of films are shot on 16mm and miniDV movies and blown up for feature film release. Some people (snobs in my opinion) may say such films "fall apart" in the theaters but the moviegoer who is not a film or camera buff doesn't leave the theater thinking about any perceived resolution loss. Besides, what are you doing with your XL-1? There have been some really nice looking films shot on XL-1's.

September 1st, 2005, 08:18 PM	#4
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Hey Anders, are you mounting your adapter over the stock lens or directly to the XL's lens mount like the P+S mini35? I think you would sure see some gain on switching to a XL2, even if not as much as if you go HDV.

September 2nd, 2005, 09:23 AM	#5
Anders Floe Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 91	Thanks for the feedback guys! I think that I will go with the XL-2...But I would be really annoyed if the XL-2s was realeased in a couple of months. But then again the XL-2 has more than twice the amount of pixels compared to the XL-1 and 28 days later didn't look all that bad. To Michael: I attach it directly onto the XL-1 thereby loosing less F stops and also getting a better image. Actually I think that my adaptor lets in more light with a nikon 50mm F1,4 - than the stock canon lens.....

September 3rd, 2005, 08:17 AM	#6
Anders Floe Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 91	I have also been looking at the JVC GY-HD100. I think I should be able to convert my relaylens to fit it as well. But what are your thought upon that camera compared to the XL-2. In Denmark where I live the two cameras cost the same. If I were to import a pal GY-HD100. Where would you recommend me buying it?

September 3rd, 2005, 11:13 AM	#7
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Can you post a link to a pic of your rig? What type of relay lens are you using? How do you attach it to the XL1's mount? About your HD100 question, if they cost the same over there, I would go with the HD100. You still have all the XL2 features plus 720p. Just my opinion. by the way, how much a HD100 cost over there?

September 3rd, 2005, 04:30 PM	#8
Anders Floe Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 91	The JVC is about 5700 $ without tax....same as the XL-2. I just uploaded some images for your viewing pleasue ;-) http://www.geocities.com/afsproductions/index.html

September 3rd, 2005, 04:50 PM	#9
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Hey, it looks pretty good. I can't see what lens you are using for relay and how you attached the relay straight to the XL mount. Could you elaborate on that? Is that 5700 Dollars or Euros? Thanks.

September 3rd, 2005, 07:21 PM	#10
Bill Porter Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ventura, California, USA Posts: 751	Are the JVC's already available in Europe and/or Japan?

September 7th, 2005, 09:07 AM	#11
Anders Floe Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 91	I've just ordered a JVC GY-HD100 and they said that it would arrive about the 20th. To Michael: The price was in dollars. I actually bought the official Mini35 relaylens which goes straight on the camera.... But now I'll be switching to JVC...so it worn't fit :-( I talked to P+S teknik and they told me that I would need to buy a relaylens for the JVC which cost 1000 euros....arghh. I'm pretty sure that the mini35 relaylens is just a closeuplens in a holster which fits the XL-1...so if they would just let me buy a holster for the JVC.... Can anyone give me some good advise??? Is it possible to get a Canon XL to JVC GY-HD100 converter???? Thanks

September 7th, 2005, 10:24 AM	#12
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	It would make sense if they were the same lens, only with a different mount, since they are both 1/3" cameras. Maybe a good machine shop could convert the mount for you. I don't think there's a XL to HD100 converter on the market. Is the lens a 50mm 35mm lens? What's the minimum focus distance? Do you still have to use an achromatic or condenser lens?

September 11th, 2005, 05:21 AM	#14
Anders Floe Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 91	Anyone know where I could get a hold of a bayonet mount as the one on the mini35 which connects to the relaylens?

September 11th, 2005, 06:38 AM	#15
Bill Porter Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ventura, California, USA Posts: 751	Which bayonet? Nikon, Canon FD, Canon New FD, Canon EF, Pentax K, or... ?