Has somebody made a mini35 style adapter for the XL2 or is the P+S the only option? at DVinfo.net

Michael Maier · August 8th, 2005, 01:25 PM

There seems to be many well done 35mm lens adapter out there. But is there any one for the canon XL2?

Quyen Le · August 8th, 2005, 01:29 PM

My friend has built one. I might ask him if he has any for sale if you are interested.

Marco Leavitt · August 8th, 2005, 02:30 PM

The micro35 would work, but you have to use it in conjunction with the XL2's lens.

Michael Maier · August 8th, 2005, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt

The micro35 would work, but you have to use it in conjunction with the XL2's lens.

That kind of defeats the purpose of the XL2 exchangeble lens.

Michael Maier · August 8th, 2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quyen Le

My friend has built one. I might ask him if he has any for sale if you are interested.

He has a website?

Steev Dinkins · August 8th, 2005, 05:41 PM

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/

Michael Maier · August 8th, 2005, 06:32 PM

Thanks Steev. The sample footage looks god. Is anybody using this set up with their XL1/XL2? Or any set up which doesn't require the use of the XL lens?

Michael Maier · August 8th, 2005, 06:35 PM

Actually, it seems this adaper fit over the XL lens as well. With so many versions of the mini35 adapter around, and so many XL users, hasn't anybody done one where you can fit the adapter straight into the lens mount like the P+S?

Steev Dinkins · August 8th, 2005, 08:18 PM

I've seen some other people take a similar approach to make an adapter for the XL2. I originally got the idea from Dino Reyes who made an adapter for XL1. But my design is closer to James Webb's version which was made for the DVX.

Regarding someone making an adapter to attach directly to the mount of the XL1/XL2, I haven't seen anyone manufacture their own XL relay lens. Not an easy feat. That is the snag. Of course you could use an XL adapter to something like Nikon or PL, but at that point, I've found it's guaranteed you'll increase the overall length of the entire apparatus significantly - even more than if you used the stock lens.

I believe there's a version of the Micro35 for XL1/XL2, and I've seen the Guerilla35 footage from XL2, so apparently they have that figured out too. However, I think they are throwing optics/etc onto the stock lens as well.

For me, at least the Manual lens gives the ability to put a hard lock on the relay focus calibration. :)

Brian Valente · August 8th, 2005, 08:25 PM

Michael,

I can only speak for the Redrock product, but it boils down to some pretty simple ideas for us:

1. You can get great quality 35mm footage with the lens on

2. By not creating a special version of our adapter for each camera, we can afford to manufacture and sell it inexpensively ($500 for the adapter, which includes the achromat)

3. I'm not sure removing the lens would make a huge difference for regular DV applications (though I"m sure there are folks who will jump on this :) )

4. The camera lens gives you additional flexibility in setting the backfocus (for example, we don't have the 1.7x multiplier you see on other solutions that use 35mm still lenses).

4. Our adapter works with pretty much any camera, so the same Redrock adapter can work with your XL2 and your (future) HD camera. Who knows, maybe Canon will develop one

Hope that helps explain our thoughts

Brian

Quyen Le · August 8th, 2005, 08:29 PM

The P+S mini35 for XL family only use 15x20mm on the 35mm, so you will use only about 1/3 of the 24x36 frame. Relay lens is available at edmund optics. We can easily build this adapter in a week but we don't see the point making an adapter then still lose 2/3 of the frame when you can get the after market version which use the full or at least close to the full 24x36 frame. I am still waiting on my friend for his answer, I remember he said he wants $2000 for it. Hope you can find one at better rate.

Quyen

Brian Valente · August 8th, 2005, 08:33 PM

Great point Quyen (although I'm not sure you meant it in the way I'm about to explain it :) )

Keeping the XL2 lens also allows you to adjust the backfocus... in this example to an SLR sized 35mm throw, which is 24x36mm as Quyen points out, and which means you get full resolution from your 35mm still lenses.

Cheers

Brian

Quyen Le · August 9th, 2005, 12:02 AM

Michael,

What stops you from using the original lens? Don't you have one? The P+S use the relay lens to capture the image from GG to the CCD. The after market will make the original lens and condensers/ achromats acts like relay lens. The advantage is, when you want to shoot with original lens, just unscrew the adapter. Check out my version and sample footage at http://www.adapterplace.com . Thanks.

Quyen

Jonathan Houser · August 9th, 2005, 09:54 AM

Michael,
The main reason it is so expensive to develop a relay lens for the
Canon/JVC cameras is mainly R&D time. You not only need to produce
a product with their mount but also as mentioned earlier you need to
deal with very very critical back focus issues and with the control of light. You need to build in an iris and some type of ND filter ring. When it's all said and done you still wont be guaranteed that the optics will be better than the stock XL lens, even if a bit smaller. Our tests on the XL2 have concluded although the lens + adapter makes the camera a bit long, the image quality is superb. Hope this helps!

Jonathan Houser
www.guerilla35.com

Michael Maier · August 9th, 2005, 10:34 AM

First, I would like to thank everyone who jumped in to discuss the point. Thanks a bunch. It's being very helpful.
It seems I over looked the complexity of it somehow. The reason I like the idea of having the adapter straight in the lens mount is that way you don't have to film through an extra piece of glass and you don't have to be limited by the resoltuion of the stock lens. Also, the length is a factor, since the XL2 is already long. If there was an adapter which would mount straight to the mount, when using my primes, it would be a very short camera. I do have a prime set laying around which I would like to use.

But it seems I will not find such adapter. But the images I have been seeing from the adapters look nice though. If I can't find the one I want, I might just get one of these which go over the lens. But do I have to use them with the stock 20x or can I use them over the old 14x manual or over the Optex 14x? Or maybe over the 3x wide angle? If I can use it over the wide angle, I might buy the XL2 with the 3x rather than the 20x. Anybody knows how much the 3x package cost or if it's even available that way? I'll check BH also.

So, what are the commericial adapters available out there for purchase? I don't want to build it myself. I would like one of those ready units. I only know the Holy Zoo so far.
Thanks guys.

August 8th, 2005, 01:25 PM	#1
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Has somebody made a mini35 style adapter for the XL2 or is the P+S the only option? There seems to be many well done 35mm lens adapter out there. But is there any one for the canon XL2?

August 8th, 2005, 08:25 PM	#10
Brian Valente Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 293	Michael, I can only speak for the Redrock product, but it boils down to some pretty simple ideas for us: 1. You can get great quality 35mm footage with the lens on 2. By not creating a special version of our adapter for each camera, we can afford to manufacture and sell it inexpensively ($500 for the adapter, which includes the achromat) 3. I'm not sure removing the lens would make a huge difference for regular DV applications (though I"m sure there are folks who will jump on this :) ) 4. The camera lens gives you additional flexibility in setting the backfocus (for example, we don't have the 1.7x multiplier you see on other solutions that use 35mm still lenses). 4. Our adapter works with pretty much any camera, so the same Redrock adapter can work with your XL2 and your (future) HD camera. Who knows, maybe Canon will develop one Hope that helps explain our thoughts Brian __________________ ========================== Brian Valente Redrock Microsystems

August 8th, 2005, 08:33 PM	#12
Brian Valente Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 293	Great point Quyen (although I'm not sure you meant it in the way I'm about to explain it :) ) Keeping the XL2 lens also allows you to adjust the backfocus... in this example to an SLR sized 35mm throw, which is 24x36mm as Quyen points out, and which means you get full resolution from your 35mm still lenses. Cheers Brian __________________ ========================== Brian Valente Redrock Microsystems

August 8th, 2005, 01:29 PM	#2
Quyen Le Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 356	My friend has built one. I might ask him if he has any for sale if you are interested.

August 8th, 2005, 02:30 PM	#3
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	The micro35 would work, but you have to use it in conjunction with the XL2's lens.

August 8th, 2005, 05:41 PM	#6
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	http://www.holyzoo.com/content/35mm/

August 8th, 2005, 06:32 PM	#7
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Thanks Steev. The sample footage looks god. Is anybody using this set up with their XL1/XL2? Or any set up which doesn't require the use of the XL lens?

August 8th, 2005, 06:35 PM	#8
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Actually, it seems this adaper fit over the XL lens as well. With so many versions of the mini35 adapter around, and so many XL users, hasn't anybody done one where you can fit the adapter straight into the lens mount like the P+S?

August 8th, 2005, 08:18 PM	#9
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	I've seen some other people take a similar approach to make an adapter for the XL2. I originally got the idea from Dino Reyes who made an adapter for XL1. But my design is closer to James Webb's version which was made for the DVX. Regarding someone making an adapter to attach directly to the mount of the XL1/XL2, I haven't seen anyone manufacture their own XL relay lens. Not an easy feat. That is the snag. Of course you could use an XL adapter to something like Nikon or PL, but at that point, I've found it's guaranteed you'll increase the overall length of the entire apparatus significantly - even more than if you used the stock lens. I believe there's a version of the Micro35 for XL1/XL2, and I've seen the Guerilla35 footage from XL2, so apparently they have that figured out too. However, I think they are throwing optics/etc onto the stock lens as well. For me, at least the Manual lens gives the ability to put a hard lock on the relay focus calibration. :)

August 8th, 2005, 08:29 PM	#11
Quyen Le Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 356	The P+S mini35 for XL family only use 15x20mm on the 35mm, so you will use only about 1/3 of the 24x36 frame. Relay lens is available at edmund optics. We can easily build this adapter in a week but we don't see the point making an adapter then still lose 2/3 of the frame when you can get the after market version which use the full or at least close to the full 24x36 frame. I am still waiting on my friend for his answer, I remember he said he wants $2000 for it. Hope you can find one at better rate. Quyen

August 9th, 2005, 12:02 AM	#13
Quyen Le Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 356	Michael, What stops you from using the original lens? Don't you have one? The P+S use the relay lens to capture the image from GG to the CCD. The after market will make the original lens and condensers/ achromats acts like relay lens. The advantage is, when you want to shoot with original lens, just unscrew the adapter. Check out my version and sample footage at http://www.adapterplace.com . Thanks. Quyen

August 9th, 2005, 09:54 AM	#14
Jonathan Houser Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 59	Michael, The main reason it is so expensive to develop a relay lens for the Canon/JVC cameras is mainly R&D time. You not only need to produce a product with their mount but also as mentioned earlier you need to deal with very very critical back focus issues and with the control of light. You need to build in an iris and some type of ND filter ring. When it's all said and done you still wont be guaranteed that the optics will be better than the stock XL lens, even if a bit smaller. Our tests on the XL2 have concluded although the lens + adapter makes the camera a bit long, the image quality is superb. Hope this helps! Jonathan Houser www.guerilla35.com

August 9th, 2005, 10:34 AM	#15
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	First, I would like to thank everyone who jumped in to discuss the point. Thanks a bunch. It's being very helpful. It seems I over looked the complexity of it somehow. The reason I like the idea of having the adapter straight in the lens mount is that way you don't have to film through an extra piece of glass and you don't have to be limited by the resoltuion of the stock lens. Also, the length is a factor, since the XL2 is already long. If there was an adapter which would mount straight to the mount, when using my primes, it would be a very short camera. I do have a prime set laying around which I would like to use. But it seems I will not find such adapter. But the images I have been seeing from the adapters look nice though. If I can't find the one I want, I might just get one of these which go over the lens. But do I have to use them with the stock 20x or can I use them over the old 14x manual or over the Optex 14x? Or maybe over the 3x wide angle? If I can use it over the wide angle, I might buy the XL2 with the 3x rather than the 20x. Anybody knows how much the 3x package cost or if it's even available that way? I'll check BH also. So, what are the commericial adapters available out there for purchase? I don't want to build it myself. I would like one of those ready units. I only know the Holy Zoo so far. Thanks guys.