cheap vibrating GG mechanism

Daves Spi · July 26th, 2005, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira Ando

If so, I am wondering if it causes Z-axis displacement of the GG due to the vibration?

I've tested this few months before and if well done, no visible Z axis movement. I had just problem with real circular motion (motion was eliptical, triangular and whatever together :))) - but who cares, because works anyway. Next problem I was facing was gravity and fast camera movement. I am wonder if the desing is similar.
Keep working... ;-)

Quyen Le · July 26th, 2005, 06:19 AM

Akira,

That was my concern too when I use pager motor. I don't see it has any affect to the image at all in Z axis. I think I should let people here in the forum to judge my design and video when it's ready. I know that I might miss something that I don't pay attention to or don't aware of. Please help me to make the design working for the people here in this forum. I do need your help.

Bill

Thank you for your explaination and email. I stand tough and don't have any hard feeling at all. I get used to it. One of my customer wants a full refund with shipping and handling because he thought it another way and then gave me a bad feedback, I don't bother explain it. I know that if my design proven working, it will hurt people spending time to make the adapter commercially and I expect those people will come in and attack my idea. I stand tough and I will share my info no matter what.

I am still testing my unit to come up with measurements and still trying to find stuff at Home Depot that can be used on the design to help people to build and test it too. My intention is to use cheap and available items to replace a hard to make shafts and bearings. I have kids to take care of and I have about 2-3 hours a day to build my unit, so please be patience, thanks.

Quyen

Craig Bellaire · July 27th, 2005, 11:19 AM

OK I have one more test and then I quit. I have spent more then a year and much money and am very very tired. Anyway hurry up and someone please make a design that works. OK and that’s cheap as well… as for my last test I tried spinning lexan glass that I hand ground for the GG… Image is too soft… Lexan is a soft material and just made the image muddy...Anyway I got one more breath.

Akira Ando · July 27th, 2005, 01:49 PM

Quyen,

Bringing up the motor Z-axis thing again.
I was thinking that usually this type of vibrator motors are very small I guess it's like 5mm Dia x 15mm length or something. And vibration is very minute in terms of Z-axis movement.

I guess people are saying No to the Virator motor set up because of Z-axis displacement, but it might be small enough not to destroys the focus.
I don't know, I'm just wondering and hoping. But If so, as long as you fix the motor body part really tight and stable, my guess is possible.

However I think most of the vibrator motors are brush motor, it makes noise, and we will have heat problem for long period continous use.
This might be pain in the arse.

Let's assume you sort out the noise and heat and Z-axis.
What about applying to WAX-Condenser Sandwich like Oscar's.
Wax seems to be very promising but it seems you can't close the iris too much.

And in the vibrator motor set up, if you install the GG into the cylinder case, Almost the same diameter but the case has very minute tolerance like 0.2mm or something, and fix the lens in order to have zero Z-axis movement in the case. Having tolerence on X-Y-Axis, then the vibrator motor touches the side of the GG (onto X-Y axis) This way, because of tolerance, X-Y axis have freemovement, and vibration force will be directed at X-Y, not towards Z.

Having said that, it needs precision machining and if you can afford one, you might as well go for 3 eccentric shaft driven oscillation method!

Quyen Le · July 27th, 2005, 02:23 PM

Akira Ando

You never seen the design and talk about it like you have seen it.
This design don't need precision machining, just any drill press will work. Hand drill also works if you know how to drill straight hole.

Noise is not a big problem. I tried this morning and I hardly hear any noise from the motor. Motor size is 7mm x 21mm and mounted perpendicular to the GG plain. There is no Z-axis moving at all.

As for wax screen, I hope that someone will come up with an easy to do method that can make a perfect focus screen. I have tried it and have to admit that I can't make a perfect one.

I will try to take picture of my prototype later today since people are waiting for it. Sorry for the wait.

Wayne Kinney,

My MSN doesn't work. Do you have anyway to post the pictures? Thanks.

Quyen

Dan Diaconu · July 27th, 2005, 03:19 PM

I can host them on my site Quyen. Email me the gif/jpegs and I'll make a new album.
setarcos@shaw.ca
Edited latter: make sure you have the text/description for each pic so all I have to do is "copy/paste"

Wayne Kinney · July 27th, 2005, 04:59 PM

Quyen,
Email me the pictures at waynekinney@hotmail.com and ill host them for you mate. Ill upload them and email you the links to them. I am REALLY looking foward to seeing your design.

Thanks,
Wayne

Quyen Le · July 27th, 2005, 09:11 PM

Thank you Dan, Wayne.

Below are pictures of the designs. No detail instruction yet. I used CD Rom motor instead of pager motor on the first design.
Second design using rubber bands, looks ugly but works.
I am working on the newer version using 2 1/2" square aluminum tube and pager motor. I will post pictures when I have it ready.
http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/01a.JPG
http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/02a.JPG
http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/03a.JPG
http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/04a.JPG
http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/05a.JPG
Hope you can get something out of these pictures.

Quyen

P.S. Wayne, I thought you have been busy so I post the pictures instead. Thanks.

Quyen Le · July 27th, 2005, 11:07 PM

I think I misspell Grommets with gommets. Sorry.

Quyen

Wayne Kinney · July 28th, 2005, 04:50 AM

Quyen,
I have uploaded the pictures for you and emailed you the links but looks like you have beaten me to it:)

The designs look interesting but hard to see how it works exactly. We all look foward to detailed intructions and pictures on your new design. That is something that very few people with a working adapter do on here, but would go a long way to helping people out. Keep up the good work there, Quyen!!!

Cheers,
Wayne.

Daves Spi · July 28th, 2005, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Kinney

The designs look interesting but hard to see how it works exactly.

As you see on this picture http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/02a.JPG, there is motor from CD drive with some eccentric thing attached on its axle. Whole GG with motor is attached on some plate which is moveable. In short - whole top is shaking in circles. Because of inertia and gyroscopic effect its moving in circle.
I have tried very similar design. I took GG and attached motor to it (I made a hole in GG and put motor axle through it). Motor was from mobile phone. I Glued it together and by pieces of rubbers attached on some plane. I had a small problem with getting really circular motion, because of gravity and weight of setup - if the motor and GG is heavy, its hard to get any motion. Also vibrations was to big. I am afraid for lots of people with heavy setups (Glassy GG with heavy condensers...) this will not work :-(. As you could see on videos I posted before, its bad if the motion si too linear (point to point). But you are on perfect way. Hard mounts with shafts are heavy, noisy and hard to do yourself. I hope I am wrong and you will find the way for heavy setup too... Test it in horizontal (working) position.

Quyen Le · July 28th, 2005, 07:55 AM

I thought I should put all the info and video together before sharing but the demand is high so I decided to show the pictures of my very first prototype. I have to work on very detailed info such as what kind of glass I use or all the measurements of what the drill bit size I use for each hole or part number or the size of plastic using for GG plain ... I did tested it on horizontal position before saying that it's working. please be patience since I don't have much time everyday to work on the project.

The motion of the GG is not perfect circular motion but not too linear. I try to make the unit as compact as possible so I use all the light and small parts. I think if people want to follow my setup, they should go the path I go since I will give all the detailed info on how to make GG, what material to use ... If people want to keep their setup, it's their choice and I am afraid I cannot help.

Once again, please be patience since I need time to put all the info together with video and instructions. I hope that you can get some info out of the pictures that I posted.

Quyen

Quyen Le · July 29th, 2005, 01:13 PM

Hi all,

Below is the link to down load my first shot using my adapter. There will be 2 files in the zip file. 1 is video and 1 is audio. I use on camera mic, very quiet. I turn it of and on couple of times to show grain of the gg, it doesn't show it the way I expect to see. Encoded pictures doesn't show circular movements that I want to show. Still a little vignetting. Overall size of adapter is 2.5"x2.5"x3.5", pretty small compare to other. Camera using is VX2000. I will take picture of my adapter later.

http://www.nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/firstshot.zip

Quyen

Leo Mandy · July 29th, 2005, 01:26 PM

I love it! that looks great - what are you using, just PVC pipe?
What are the beads use for? Spacing for focal length?
Also, you seemed to have two rigs that - one that is rectangular and one that is round? Is that right?
Also, looking at pic1 and pic4 - are you using the rubber bands to hold the GG in pic 4, where you are using silicone or something to hold the GG in place in pic1?

Awesome, just awesome! More details please...

Keith Kline · July 29th, 2005, 01:57 PM

What do you use to view mvp files? I downloaded the clip, but i can't open it?

July 27th, 2005, 11:19 AM	#18
Craig Bellaire Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 422	Hurry Up OK I have one more test and then I quit. I have spent more then a year and much money and am very very tired. Anyway hurry up and someone please make a design that works. OK and that’s cheap as well… as for my last test I tried spinning lexan glass that I hand ground for the GG… Image is too soft… Lexan is a soft material and just made the image muddy...Anyway I got one more breath. __________________ Craig Bellaire www.VerticalVideoSolutions.com

July 27th, 2005, 01:49 PM	#19
Akira Ando New Boot Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 7	Pager Motor Z-axis thing Quyen, Bringing up the motor Z-axis thing again. I was thinking that usually this type of vibrator motors are very small I guess it's like 5mm Dia x 15mm length or something. And vibration is very minute in terms of Z-axis movement. I guess people are saying No to the Virator motor set up because of Z-axis displacement, but it might be small enough not to destroys the focus. I don't know, I'm just wondering and hoping. But If so, as long as you fix the motor body part really tight and stable, my guess is possible. However I think most of the vibrator motors are brush motor, it makes noise, and we will have heat problem for long period continous use. This might be pain in the arse. Let's assume you sort out the noise and heat and Z-axis. What about applying to WAX-Condenser Sandwich like Oscar's. Wax seems to be very promising but it seems you can't close the iris too much. And in the vibrator motor set up, if you install the GG into the cylinder case, Almost the same diameter but the case has very minute tolerance like 0.2mm or something, and fix the lens in order to have zero Z-axis movement in the case. Having tolerence on X-Y-Axis, then the vibrator motor touches the side of the GG (onto X-Y axis) This way, because of tolerance, X-Y axis have freemovement, and vibration force will be directed at X-Y, not towards Z. Having said that, it needs precision machining and if you can afford one, you might as well go for 3 eccentric shaft driven oscillation method!

July 27th, 2005, 11:07 PM	#24
Quyen Le Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 356	Misspell I think I misspell Grommets with gommets. Sorry. Quyen

July 29th, 2005, 01:13 PM	#28
Quyen Le Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 356	First Shot Hi all, Below is the link to down load my first shot using my adapter. There will be 2 files in the zip file. 1 is video and 1 is audio. I use on camera mic, very quiet. I turn it of and on couple of times to show grain of the gg, it doesn't show it the way I expect to see. Encoded pictures doesn't show circular movements that I want to show. Still a little vignetting. Overall size of adapter is 2.5"x2.5"x3.5", pretty small compare to other. Camera using is VX2000. I will take picture of my adapter later. http://www.nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/firstshot.zip Quyen

July 29th, 2005, 01:57 PM	#30
Keith Kline Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 153	Mvp What do you use to view mvp files? I downloaded the clip, but i can't open it?

July 26th, 2005, 06:19 AM	#17
Quyen Le Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 356	Akira, That was my concern too when I use pager motor. I don't see it has any affect to the image at all in Z axis. I think I should let people here in the forum to judge my design and video when it's ready. I know that I might miss something that I don't pay attention to or don't aware of. Please help me to make the design working for the people here in this forum. I do need your help. Bill Thank you for your explaination and email. I stand tough and don't have any hard feeling at all. I get used to it. One of my customer wants a full refund with shipping and handling because he thought it another way and then gave me a bad feedback, I don't bother explain it. I know that if my design proven working, it will hurt people spending time to make the adapter commercially and I expect those people will come in and attack my idea. I stand tough and I will share my info no matter what. I am still testing my unit to come up with measurements and still trying to find stuff at Home Depot that can be used on the design to help people to build and test it too. My intention is to use cheap and available items to replace a hard to make shafts and bearings. I have kids to take care of and I have about 2-3 hours a day to build my unit, so please be patience, thanks. Quyen

July 27th, 2005, 02:23 PM	#20
Quyen Le Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 356	Akira Ando You never seen the design and talk about it like you have seen it. This design don't need precision machining, just any drill press will work. Hand drill also works if you know how to drill straight hole. Noise is not a big problem. I tried this morning and I hardly hear any noise from the motor. Motor size is 7mm x 21mm and mounted perpendicular to the GG plain. There is no Z-axis moving at all. As for wax screen, I hope that someone will come up with an easy to do method that can make a perfect focus screen. I have tried it and have to admit that I can't make a perfect one. I will try to take picture of my prototype later today since people are waiting for it. Sorry for the wait. Wayne Kinney, My MSN doesn't work. Do you have anyway to post the pictures? Thanks. Quyen

July 27th, 2005, 03:19 PM	#21
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	I can host them on my site Quyen. Email me the gif/jpegs and I'll make a new album. setarcos@shaw.ca Edited latter: make sure you have the text/description for each pic so all I have to do is "copy/paste"

July 27th, 2005, 04:59 PM	#22
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Quyen, Email me the pictures at waynekinney@hotmail.com and ill host them for you mate. Ill upload them and email you the links to them. I am REALLY looking foward to seeing your design. Thanks, Wayne

July 27th, 2005, 09:11 PM	#23
Quyen Le Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 356	Thank you Dan, Wayne. Below are pictures of the designs. No detail instruction yet. I used CD Rom motor instead of pager motor on the first design. Second design using rubber bands, looks ugly but works. I am working on the newer version using 2 1/2" square aluminum tube and pager motor. I will post pictures when I have it ready. http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/01a.JPG http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/02a.JPG http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/03a.JPG http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/04a.JPG http://nuocsong.com/nhatho/adapter/05a.JPG Hope you can get something out of these pictures. Quyen P.S. Wayne, I thought you have been busy so I post the pictures instead. Thanks.

July 28th, 2005, 04:50 AM	#25
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Quyen, I have uploaded the pictures for you and emailed you the links but looks like you have beaten me to it:) The designs look interesting but hard to see how it works exactly. We all look foward to detailed intructions and pictures on your new design. That is something that very few people with a working adapter do on here, but would go a long way to helping people out. Keep up the good work there, Quyen!!! Cheers, Wayne.

July 28th, 2005, 07:55 AM	#27
Quyen Le Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 356	I thought I should put all the info and video together before sharing but the demand is high so I decided to show the pictures of my very first prototype. I have to work on very detailed info such as what kind of glass I use or all the measurements of what the drill bit size I use for each hole or part number or the size of plastic using for GG plain ... I did tested it on horizontal position before saying that it's working. please be patience since I don't have much time everyday to work on the project. The motion of the GG is not perfect circular motion but not too linear. I try to make the unit as compact as possible so I use all the light and small parts. I think if people want to follow my setup, they should go the path I go since I will give all the detailed info on how to make GG, what material to use ... If people want to keep their setup, it's their choice and I am afraid I cannot help. Once again, please be patience since I need time to put all the info together with video and instructions. I hope that you can get some info out of the pictures that I posted. Quyen

July 29th, 2005, 01:26 PM	#29
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	I love it! that looks great - what are you using, just PVC pipe? What are the beads use for? Spacing for focal length? Also, you seemed to have two rigs that - one that is rectangular and one that is round? Is that right? Also, looking at pic1 and pic4 - are you using the rubber bands to hold the GG in pic 4, where you are using silicone or something to hold the GG in place in pic1? Awesome, just awesome! More details please...