Look What I found. at DVinfo.net

Scott Grocott · July 7th, 2005, 10:56 AM

http://www.jonalden.com/IMG_4471.JPG

Sorry guys......I guess the host yanked the picture.

Matthew Wauhkonen · July 7th, 2005, 04:47 PM

The most interesting thing is that there's a jar of micro-wax hidden ont he left. The same color of microwax that the G35 uses....

Jeff Phang · July 8th, 2005, 09:59 AM

the picture doesn't work for me... can anyone re host it?

Jonathan Houser · July 8th, 2005, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Wauhkonen

The most interesting thing is that there's a jar of micro-wax hidden ont he left. The same color of microwax that the G35 uses....

Nice Matthew. The site went down for a bit due to some huge downloads. Here are some more pics of it mounted to and XL2 and DVX.

www.jonalden.com/PHOTOS/1.jPG
www.jonalden.com/PHOTOS/2.jpg
www.jonalden.com/PHOTOS/3.jpg

Jim Lafferty · July 9th, 2005, 11:10 PM

I'd like to see the original -- anyone have it? I'd even host it if you'd pass it along :D What'd the jar of microwax look like? Brand?

email: jim@ideaspora.net

Jim Lafferty · July 10th, 2005, 09:52 AM

OK. A couple of things... someone contacted me and I've had the chance to view the files from that site:

There's no telling what that jar is -- it could be honey, vaseline or a glue (etc...). It's most definitely not microwax, which is a solid, generally white, and comes shipped in blocks. You wouldn't ship solid wax in a jar -- bit of a pain to get it out :)

Their rig looks nice, really solid and polished, however it looks (externally) no better than what you could assemble using ThorLabs and Century Optics parts. In fact, judging by the still, it's the same diameter (2") as the ThorLabs optical tubing -- the only thing "missing" from, e.g., my design, would be their C or F mount, and their achromat. I'd still love to find a supplier of interchangeable C and F mounts that fit the threads on the 2" TL tubing. Anyone know of any?

Otherwise, the length of their adapter looks as if they've got their other optics internal -- the achromat and whatever else (condensor), making this fully transprtable from one cam to the next. That's a nice addition and I wish I knew who was their optics provider. Or, of course, if someone here has ideas for something similar I'm all ears/eyes. +7 or greater achromat that fits inside a 2" tube (49mm) would be awesome. Perhaps I can contact the people at Century -- they're awfully nice -- to see if something like this could be custom made and if so, how much it would cost.

The footage has grain! It's just like the grain on test footage I've done. The G35 people have claimed that the grain is indiscernable under most conditions, and I would suspect that, for the average viewer, this is true. But, it doesn't appear to me that they've lept past the community here. In fact, Frank to this day has the best static footage around, period.

Needless to say, this has gotten me excited again.

- jim

Matthew Wauhkonen · July 10th, 2005, 11:24 AM

Jim, you've got an email.

Jim Lafferty · July 10th, 2005, 12:55 PM

Got your email. You've got a response.

Thinking it over some more, let's assume they are using the Century Achromat -- that makes their adapter large enough to fit a 58mm achromat inside. So, my guess is that they have tubing with internal threads, an achromat inside of it, and then a step-up ring fitted to the rear of whatever dia the camera's lens is. At the other end, a stock C or F mount of the same dia, with external threads that fit inside the tube. There might be threading the entire length of the tube internally, so getting the right flange focal length is simply a matter of moving the GG with retainer ring(s) inside.

This is more or less how my setup works, exactly.

I started working on a new microwax glass using the Oscar Spier method -- I'm leaving a 49mm filter untouched, placing a 43mm filter removed from its retainer ring ontop (with single layer tape spacers), and dunking the entire solution in melted wax. I'll have it finished tomorrow and let you know if/how it works.

One observation -- cotton gloves are better than latex for this sort of work. I'm using a combination of compressed air and optical cloth to get rid of dust left behind from the gloves. Dust seems (I hope) to be much easier to get rid of than moisture smudges left behind by the latex.

- jim

Andy Gordon · July 10th, 2005, 05:59 PM

I've got a working static prototype using Optosigma parts, two 50mm dia 120mm FL PCX lenses back to back between GG and cam have got rid of the hotspot under most lighting conditions |(), there's a small amount of aberration and no distortion, and the GG grain is usually only noticeable on bright out of focus objects. Image size is larger than 36x24mm. That's with Takumar 1.4 lens and GS400 cam.

The thing I've noticed is the GG gives a diffusion effect on out of focus areas which I'm not happy with. I made a wax glass similar to what you're doing with two filters and it didn't have the out of focus diffusion, only problem is the wax I have is soft at room temperature and the grain isn't fine enough. It worked really well otherwise so if I can find the right wax I'll make a better one.

I've found another source of wax, the Australian distributor for spwax, can anyone tell me if this is the right stuff to get, there's only one type available:

Microcrystalline wax 1275WH
Melting point 165/175F
Acid value Nil
Saponification Value Nil
Penetration @ 77F 60-80

Thanks
Andy

Oscar Spierenburg · July 11th, 2005, 07:02 AM

I can only guess about the G35, but the MovieTube is definitely using microcrystalline wax between two condensers. See the patent page:
http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=E...DE10240076&F=0
The patent says mixture of paraffin wax and beeswax, but the MovieTube site itself says 'microcrystalline grain screen'
I learned that the condensers are crucial for the grain (I have them like the MovieTube with the wax glass sandwiched), I think because the light comes in straight and doesn't give the grain 'shadows'.

Andy, I think that's the right wax.

Frank Ladner · July 11th, 2005, 07:49 AM

Quote:

I've found another source of wax, the Australian distributor for spwax, can anyone tell me if this is the right stuff to get, there's only one type available:

Andy: That looks like what you want. In fact, the melting point on that is higher than the wax I was using, so that would be even better.

Leo Mandy · July 16th, 2005, 06:17 PM

I think you are right Oscar, there is something to the condensers and the G35 - I guess we will have to wait until someone buys one and hacks it!

Oscar Spierenburg · July 17th, 2005, 06:02 PM

Don't forget that a good condenser 'captures' the whole image, as sharp and bright as can be, on the focal plane. Only without any DOF. Theoretically, you can have a GG (wax layer) as thin as possible only to get the DOF. That's a bit different than just saying a condenser can be used to even out a hotspot.

Matthew Wauhkonen · July 20th, 2005, 09:55 AM

Looks like Mobilwax 2305 to me!

Donnie Wagner · July 20th, 2005, 01:13 PM

"I learned that the condensers are crucial for the grain (I have them like the MovieTube with the wax glass sandwiched)"

Oscar,
What condesers are you using, (diameter, focal lenght, brand?)

July 7th, 2005, 10:56 AM	#1
Scott Grocott New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Luis Obispo , CA Posts: 21	Look What I found. http://www.jonalden.com/IMG_4471.JPG Sorry guys......I guess the host yanked the picture. Last edited by Scott Grocott; July 8th, 2005 at 10:22 AM.

July 9th, 2005, 11:10 PM	#5
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	I'd like to see the original -- anyone have it? I'd even host it if you'd pass it along :D What'd the jar of microwax look like? Brand? email: jim@ideaspora.net __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

July 10th, 2005, 09:52 AM	#6
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	OK. A couple of things... someone contacted me and I've had the chance to view the files from that site: There's no telling what that jar is -- it could be honey, vaseline or a glue (etc...). It's most definitely not microwax, which is a solid, generally white, and comes shipped in blocks. You wouldn't ship solid wax in a jar -- bit of a pain to get it out :) Their rig looks nice, really solid and polished, however it looks (externally) no better than what you could assemble using ThorLabs and Century Optics parts. In fact, judging by the still, it's the same diameter (2") as the ThorLabs optical tubing -- the only thing "missing" from, e.g., my design, would be their C or F mount, and their achromat. I'd still love to find a supplier of interchangeable C and F mounts that fit the threads on the 2" TL tubing. Anyone know of any? Otherwise, the length of their adapter looks as if they've got their other optics internal -- the achromat and whatever else (condensor), making this fully transprtable from one cam to the next. That's a nice addition and I wish I knew who was their optics provider. Or, of course, if someone here has ideas for something similar I'm all ears/eyes. +7 or greater achromat that fits inside a 2" tube (49mm) would be awesome. Perhaps I can contact the people at Century -- they're awfully nice -- to see if something like this could be custom made and if so, how much it would cost. The footage has grain! It's just like the grain on test footage I've done. The G35 people have claimed that the grain is indiscernable under most conditions, and I would suspect that, for the average viewer, this is true. But, it doesn't appear to me that they've lept past the community here. In fact, Frank to this day has the best static footage around, period. Needless to say, this has gotten me excited again. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

July 10th, 2005, 12:55 PM	#8
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Got your email. You've got a response. Thinking it over some more, let's assume they are using the Century Achromat -- that makes their adapter large enough to fit a 58mm achromat inside. So, my guess is that they have tubing with internal threads, an achromat inside of it, and then a step-up ring fitted to the rear of whatever dia the camera's lens is. At the other end, a stock C or F mount of the same dia, with external threads that fit inside the tube. There might be threading the entire length of the tube internally, so getting the right flange focal length is simply a matter of moving the GG with retainer ring(s) inside. This is more or less how my setup works, exactly. I started working on a new microwax glass using the Oscar Spier method -- I'm leaving a 49mm filter untouched, placing a 43mm filter removed from its retainer ring ontop (with single layer tape spacers), and dunking the entire solution in melted wax. I'll have it finished tomorrow and let you know if/how it works. One observation -- cotton gloves are better than latex for this sort of work. I'm using a combination of compressed air and optical cloth to get rid of dust left behind from the gloves. Dust seems (I hope) to be much easier to get rid of than moisture smudges left behind by the latex. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

July 10th, 2005, 05:59 PM	#9
Andy Gordon Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Perth WA Posts: 103	I've got a working static prototype using Optosigma parts, two 50mm dia 120mm FL PCX lenses back to back between GG and cam have got rid of the hotspot under most lighting conditions \|(), there's a small amount of aberration and no distortion, and the GG grain is usually only noticeable on bright out of focus objects. Image size is larger than 36x24mm. That's with Takumar 1.4 lens and GS400 cam. The thing I've noticed is the GG gives a diffusion effect on out of focus areas which I'm not happy with. I made a wax glass similar to what you're doing with two filters and it didn't have the out of focus diffusion, only problem is the wax I have is soft at room temperature and the grain isn't fine enough. It worked really well otherwise so if I can find the right wax I'll make a better one. I've found another source of wax, the Australian distributor for spwax, can anyone tell me if this is the right stuff to get, there's only one type available: Microcrystalline wax 1275WH Melting point 165/175F Acid value Nil Saponification Value Nil Penetration @ 77F 60-80 Thanks Andy Last edited by Andy Gordon; July 10th, 2005 at 06:52 PM.

July 7th, 2005, 04:47 PM	#2
Matthew Wauhkonen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 285	The most interesting thing is that there's a jar of micro-wax hidden ont he left. The same color of microwax that the G35 uses....

July 8th, 2005, 09:59 AM	#3
Jeff Phang Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 34	the picture doesn't work for me... can anyone re host it?

July 10th, 2005, 11:24 AM	#7
Matthew Wauhkonen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 285	Jim, you've got an email.

July 11th, 2005, 07:02 AM	#10
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	I can only guess about the G35, but the MovieTube is definitely using microcrystalline wax between two condensers. See the patent page: http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=E...DE10240076&F=0 The patent says mixture of paraffin wax and beeswax, but the MovieTube site itself says 'microcrystalline grain screen' I learned that the condensers are crucial for the grain (I have them like the MovieTube with the wax glass sandwiched), I think because the light comes in straight and doesn't give the grain 'shadows'. Andy, I think that's the right wax.

July 16th, 2005, 06:17 PM	#12
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	I think you are right Oscar, there is something to the condensers and the G35 - I guess we will have to wait until someone buys one and hacks it!

July 17th, 2005, 06:02 PM	#13
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Don't forget that a good condenser 'captures' the whole image, as sharp and bright as can be, on the focal plane. Only without any DOF. Theoretically, you can have a GG (wax layer) as thin as possible only to get the DOF. That's a bit different than just saying a condenser can be used to even out a hotspot.

July 20th, 2005, 09:55 AM	#14
Matthew Wauhkonen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 285	Looks like Mobilwax 2305 to me!

July 20th, 2005, 01:13 PM	#15
Donnie Wagner Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 135	"I learned that the condensers are crucial for the grain (I have them like the MovieTube with the wax glass sandwiched)" Oscar, What condesers are you using, (diameter, focal lenght, brand?)