Sony FX1E to hard drive 4:2:2? 10 bit? indie film/HD solution at DVinfo.net

Radek Svoboda · March 30th, 2005, 12:34 PM

I own FX1E. The camera head puts out uncompressed 1080i analog output, which I believe is 10 bit. Is there way to attach hard drive to uncompressed output? Would you get 4:2:2, or what is color sampling? The cameras that you guys building here are great. But using FX1 would give built in viewfinder, etc.

You could disconnect hard drive and use camera as a regular camera.

You get 1440x1080 pixel resolution. You have it deinterlaced by with DV film software. In worst case where everything moving you end with 720x1080 pixels progressive image. That is good enogh for me.

Can the hard drives, micro computers, etc. that you are building here get interfaced to Sony camera? If not, do you think someone may come with a solution soon?

Is image out of uncompressed analog output equivalent to 10 bit? Can you get 10 bit quality out?

If FX1 would not work in this kind setup, maybe Z1 would.

Am I missing something?

How much would recording device cost? Would it use some kind of built in compression? If someone is working on such solution, when you expect it to be available?

Is 10 bit uncompressed image lot better than compressed 8 bit image?

Will new JVC HD100 be compatable with such device?

Radek

Oscar Spierenburg · March 30th, 2005, 01:19 PM

Radek, I think it's more effective for you and future readers to post these questions on existing threads, because they are very specific. I'm sure people who can answer your questions are subscribed to the thread you could be posting on, so they get your question directly by e-mail.

Just a thought though.

Bob Hart · March 31st, 2005, 07:25 AM

Radek.

Visit P+S Technik website. They seem to be doing something like this.

Valeriu Campan · April 2nd, 2005, 07:59 AM

Radek,

Have a look at AJA Kona's A/D converters and Blackmagic-Design multibridge. They allow to convert the analog component output of any camera into a digital 10 bit signal to be recorded by any computer that comes within their specs. You can use your camera to record on tape as well (HDV or DVCAM). The tape could be used as a backup (!?!) or as source for the off line editing. If you are happy with a tethered set up, way to go... and don't dream to shoot run & gun style.

Analog is analog and digital can be 8, 10, 12, 16 bit.... your choice and budget! The higher the better and MORE EXPENSIVE. Depends on the codec you use and your requirements or needs for post production.

Radek Svoboda · April 2nd, 2005, 09:42 AM

Thank you. But you have haul around big computer. Is there small computer that could be used, like laptop or small factor computer that works on batteries? Would you be able use the laptop screen as monitor at same time? If you used laptop, would you need separate RAID drive? I don't want to haul desktop around. Any suggestions? Could the computer compress the data gently?

Anhar Miah · April 2nd, 2005, 08:38 PM

I think essentially what Radek is saying, instead of using those single cmos cameras (aka 4:4:4 homemade HD threads) why not use 3 CCD 16:9 native 1080i (i.e. the fx1) as the CAMERA HEAD and build around that (since it outputs analouge signal)

here is another idea, why not make a wireless transmitter (or modify one of those TV signal senders) and have a computer with the receiver? i.e. FX1>>anolouge video signal >> wireless transmitter (TV signal sender/modified) >> receiver>> A/D capture (eg blackmagic) >>PC>>harddrive. That way you can shoot without building a portable computer solution

Radek Svoboda · April 3rd, 2005, 05:59 AM

Transmitting 1 Gbps from antenna on camera would probably fry your brain pretty soon. If you use HDSDI converter at camera, how far could you run coax? Is there HDSDI converter with fiber optics output? You could probably run that for miles. How much is some small battery powered HDSDI converter?

Now if we could change lens for Fuji, like Italian guy did, or use relay lens and home made Micro 35 adapter that will go on sale for $500, we would have super camera to make movies. I just wonder if quality after conversion is really 10 bit. Does anyone know?

Radek

Valeriu Campan · April 5th, 2005, 08:28 AM

Radek,

If you look at AJA KONA and BlackMagic websites, you'll understand better how the compression of the analog signal to digital is done. The moment you go into the HD zone, a RAID 0 drive config is a must.

I have seen a small box that can transmit a component signal over CAT5 ethernet cable:
http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productVie...Max=&SUBCATID=
I wonder if there is any signal quality loss or interference issues.

Kyle Edwards · April 5th, 2005, 01:30 PM

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=42412

720p, maybe it could support 1080i soon...

March 30th, 2005, 12:34 PM	#1
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Sony FX1E to hard drive 4:2:2? 10 bit? indie film/HD solution I own FX1E. The camera head puts out uncompressed 1080i analog output, which I believe is 10 bit. Is there way to attach hard drive to uncompressed output? Would you get 4:2:2, or what is color sampling? The cameras that you guys building here are great. But using FX1 would give built in viewfinder, etc. You could disconnect hard drive and use camera as a regular camera. You get 1440x1080 pixel resolution. You have it deinterlaced by with DV film software. In worst case where everything moving you end with 720x1080 pixels progressive image. That is good enogh for me. Can the hard drives, micro computers, etc. that you are building here get interfaced to Sony camera? If not, do you think someone may come with a solution soon? Is image out of uncompressed analog output equivalent to 10 bit? Can you get 10 bit quality out? If FX1 would not work in this kind setup, maybe Z1 would. Am I missing something? How much would recording device cost? Would it use some kind of built in compression? If someone is working on such solution, when you expect it to be available? Is 10 bit uncompressed image lot better than compressed 8 bit image? Will new JVC HD100 be compatable with such device? Radek

March 30th, 2005, 01:19 PM	#2
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Radek, I think it's more effective for you and future readers to post these questions on existing threads, because they are very specific. I'm sure people who can answer your questions are subscribed to the thread you could be posting on, so they get your question directly by e-mail. Just a thought though.

March 31st, 2005, 07:25 AM	#3
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Radek. Visit P+S Technik website. They seem to be doing something like this.

April 2nd, 2005, 07:59 AM	#4
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	Radek, Have a look at AJA Kona's A/D converters and Blackmagic-Design multibridge. They allow to convert the analog component output of any camera into a digital 10 bit signal to be recorded by any computer that comes within their specs. You can use your camera to record on tape as well (HDV or DVCAM). The tape could be used as a backup (!?!) or as source for the off line editing. If you are happy with a tethered set up, way to go... and don't dream to shoot run & gun style. Analog is analog and digital can be 8, 10, 12, 16 bit.... your choice and budget! The higher the better and MORE EXPENSIVE. Depends on the codec you use and your requirements or needs for post production.

April 2nd, 2005, 09:42 AM	#5
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Thank you. But you have haul around big computer. Is there small computer that could be used, like laptop or small factor computer that works on batteries? Would you be able use the laptop screen as monitor at same time? If you used laptop, would you need separate RAID drive? I don't want to haul desktop around. Any suggestions? Could the computer compress the data gently?

April 2nd, 2005, 08:38 PM	#6
Anhar Miah Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: United Kindom, England Posts: 290	I think essentially what Radek is saying, instead of using those single cmos cameras (aka 4:4:4 homemade HD threads) why not use 3 CCD 16:9 native 1080i (i.e. the fx1) as the CAMERA HEAD and build around that (since it outputs analouge signal) here is another idea, why not make a wireless transmitter (or modify one of those TV signal senders) and have a computer with the receiver? i.e. FX1>>anolouge video signal >> wireless transmitter (TV signal sender/modified) >> receiver>> A/D capture (eg blackmagic) >>PC>>harddrive. That way you can shoot without building a portable computer solution

April 3rd, 2005, 05:59 AM	#7
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Transmitting 1 Gbps from antenna on camera would probably fry your brain pretty soon. If you use HDSDI converter at camera, how far could you run coax? Is there HDSDI converter with fiber optics output? You could probably run that for miles. How much is some small battery powered HDSDI converter? Now if we could change lens for Fuji, like Italian guy did, or use relay lens and home made Micro 35 adapter that will go on sale for $500, we would have super camera to make movies. I just wonder if quality after conversion is really 10 bit. Does anyone know? Radek

April 5th, 2005, 08:28 AM	#8
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	Radek, If you look at AJA KONA and BlackMagic websites, you'll understand better how the compression of the analog signal to digital is done. The moment you go into the HD zone, a RAID 0 drive config is a must. I have seen a small box that can transmit a component signal over CAT5 ethernet cable: http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productVie...Max=&SUBCATID= I wonder if there is any signal quality loss or interference issues.

April 5th, 2005, 01:30 PM	#9
Kyle Edwards Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI, NY Posts: 274	http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=42412 720p, maybe it could support 1080i soon...