Anamorphics at DVinfo.net

Aaron Shaw · January 25th, 2005, 07:12 PM

Hi guys,

With the advent of so many different mini35 type products hitting the market, I thought I might propose an additional anamorphic adapter.

I have been seriously pondering manufacturing these things to sell (I'm not particuarily looking for profit so I can pretty much keep the cost as low as feasible). Certainly in 16:9 and perhaps 2.35. Now my question is, before I get too much farther in my thinking, would anyone be interested in this sort of thing? My current design would mount between the lens mount of the 35mm rig and the 35mm rig allowing you to use the same adapter for still photography as well if you so chose. Should I persue this more? I'm definitely going to be getting one for myself just curious if anyone else was interested.

Keith Kline · January 25th, 2005, 07:27 PM

Well I am definitly interested in something like this. I still don't fully understand how the rear system works though. I have been trying to figure out a front mounted system, but I haven't had any luck as of yet. Do you know what the problems are with the front mounted systems. Thanks!

Aaron Shaw · January 25th, 2005, 07:59 PM

Hi Keith,

For more information on how these work check out my post here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38190&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

Sixth down or so. Feel free to ask questions as well!

The idea doesn't seem to be all that popular. I suppose a fully functional working model would be requisite to spark any real interest. Still, I'm just wondering if it would be worth my time to order a few extra while I'm at it.

Anyway... I hope to have a fully functional prototype done soon. When I do you can most certainly expect footage! Theoretically this adapter would work with any mini35 system though different lens companies would require slightly different anamorphics. I'm focusing on Nikon at the moment.

Jonathan Pacheco · January 25th, 2005, 10:02 PM

I personally would be totally interested. I'll definitely follow the progress.

Keith Kline · January 25th, 2005, 10:45 PM

Just like everything else on here, I think alot of people would be more interested in it once there's footage to see. I've been toying with the idea of using a cylinder lens for a front anamorphic, but i couldn't find out if there is a way to calculate the magnification factor of these lenses. Basically what I am trying to figure out is a way to make something like the century optics one that could fit in front of the 35mm prime lens, like an add on wide angle, but so far I haven't been able to figure too much out. Anyone have any ideas on what kind of lenses are in something like the century optics adapter? Like this...

http://www.centuryoptics.com/products/dv//133x/133x.htm

It seems to me that there has to be a way to make something like this for alot less than the price they're asking for their anamorphic. Something that could thread onto the front of the lens and fit different 35mm lenses.

Either way I'm looking forward to finding out whatever you come up with Aaron and I'll be more than happy to help where ever i can.

Oscar Spierenburg · January 26th, 2005, 09:14 AM

The site of the century optics lens says it has a wider view, so does this mean the lens is thicker in the middle or narrower?

If there is an optic expert amongst us, could he make a calculation on the curve we need? Or maybe someone has the real thing and measure it.

I really think if you bend a flat piece of acryl glass and make a construction with a real glass lens filter, fill it up with water, it would work. The only thing I need is the curve, or an estimate to get testing.

Ryan Koo · January 26th, 2005, 09:51 AM

I'd definitely be interested if it was feasible and not incredibly expensive--most of us shooting with a mini35-type adapter in place will be going to widescreen, and having to crop PLUS any sharpness loss inherent to the 35 adapter means that you're losing a lot of resolution--a good anamorphic would help re-gain some of that. So yes, I'd be interested... if it works!

Aaron Shaw · January 26th, 2005, 02:09 PM

Ocar, yes the lens is indeed thicker in the center. Much like this:

http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/displayproduct.cfm?productID=2108&search=1

I could run some calculations if you would like. You would need to tell me what brand lens you use though and anything else you can find with regard to the optics contained in the lens.

Keith, the magnification factor depends on the interaction of two optical elements. It's not a 100% straightforward topic and the magnification changes depending on the distance as well. If you want an adapter for a 35mm lens that goes on the front I suggest getting ahold of a 16mm anamorphic projector lens. These can usually screw onto the front of a 35mm lens. The only downside is that both the 35mm lens and the anamorphic would have to be focused separately. If you do go this route look for a 1.75x lens though. A 2x will give you a very wide image 2.66:1 or so.

Ryan: if it works indeed! I'm actually not worried about getting it to work. I know it works and I can predict the aberrations that the lens might have before constructing it (by working with lens design software). The only question is: "how much would you be willing to pay for such a piece?" You could do this very cheaply but the image quality would suck. You could also do this very expensively which isn't necessary either.

Cody Dulock · January 26th, 2005, 04:05 PM

im interested. pricing?? is it already mounted in a threaded type application or is going to be bayonet style?

Ernest Acosta · January 26th, 2005, 04:07 PM

Aaron I am interested. Let me know when you have a working model.

Oscar Spierenburg · January 26th, 2005, 05:19 PM

Aaron, the lens is a (photographic) cosinon (auto MC)
F=1,7 f=50mm
no. 756105

That's what it says on the front. I know it's a cheep one, but it is very smooth and light in focusing, that’s why I use it.

If you could calculate something, I would be very happy. Even with a rough estimate, so don't make much work on it.
I’ll also be following this tread, so maybe I’ll end up buying your lens anyhow.

Oh, and is it possible to have a step wider than 16:9? Or would the lens be too thick for a rear lens.

Aaron Shaw · January 26th, 2005, 05:49 PM

Hi Cody,

Heres the dillema. A bayonet style adapter would be preferable I think. The problem? This would extend the focal length of your lens slighty.

I could make it as an internal lens but that would require installation and would mean I would have to make many different versions.

The only other option is to have one end be bayonet mount and the other replace the mount used in the 35mm adapter. This is how this is usually done with film cameras. While it would still require an installation it would be much simpler (theoretically). My goal is to make this as easy to use as possible (for my own sake if nothing else!)

So... I have some thinking to do about actual housing. The lens system is ready to go though.

Ocar, what diameter is your lens?

You can have the compression be whatever you would like! Would you prefer a different aspect ratio?

Oscar Spierenburg · January 26th, 2005, 06:46 PM

If you mean the diameter of the 35mm lens: 3,2mm is the front lens, the front filter ring is 48mm. The rear lens is 2,5mm.

If you mean the lens I will be making, it will be 48mm.

2.35:1 aspect ratio is what I'd want.

Thanks.

Aaron Shaw · January 26th, 2005, 07:23 PM

Alright, I'll see what I can churn out :D. It may take a day or two as I have other things going on as well right now.

As for demo footage - Expect some fairly soon! Week or two perhaps.

Emmanuel Decarpentrie · January 27th, 2005, 02:45 AM

Aaron, I too would be quite interested in your adapter, as it would be a very nice upgrade to the micro35 I plan to purchase/build as soon as possible.

About the price, I guess anything under $500 would be considered OK, from my point-of-view. Based on the street price from the Panasonic DVX100's anamorphic adapter, I don't think you could easily justify many more bucks than $500, because a "rear system" doesn't have as much glass (AFAIK), and doesn't weight as much as a "front" system... Of course, should you need extra income after a while, you could also make an updated super duper PRO version of your adapter, with no optical distortion at all (even at full wide, and full telephoto), titanium case, lifetime warranty, PL mount, and so on... And sell those for $4000 each, which will sound like quite a good deal for the PRO-market. But, don't forget to test your system with us (the DIY market segment) first :)

My 2 cents...

Anyway, keep us informed on your progress, as you are making something many people accross the world would be interested in, including, pehaps, the real "mini35" and "movietube" guys :)

January 25th, 2005, 07:12 PM	#1
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Anamorphics Hi guys, With the advent of so many different mini35 type products hitting the market, I thought I might propose an additional anamorphic adapter. I have been seriously pondering manufacturing these things to sell (I'm not particuarily looking for profit so I can pretty much keep the cost as low as feasible). Certainly in 16:9 and perhaps 2.35. Now my question is, before I get too much farther in my thinking, would anyone be interested in this sort of thing? My current design would mount between the lens mount of the 35mm rig and the 35mm rig allowing you to use the same adapter for still photography as well if you so chose. Should I persue this more? I'm definitely going to be getting one for myself just curious if anyone else was interested.

January 26th, 2005, 04:07 PM	#10
Ernest Acosta Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New York Posts: 59	Aaron I am interested. Let me know when you have a working model. __________________ Ernest L. Acosta, Jr. President Garage At Large Productions P.O. Box 42 Times Square Station New York, NY 10108

January 25th, 2005, 07:27 PM	#2
Keith Kline Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 153	Well I am definitly interested in something like this. I still don't fully understand how the rear system works though. I have been trying to figure out a front mounted system, but I haven't had any luck as of yet. Do you know what the problems are with the front mounted systems. Thanks!

January 25th, 2005, 07:59 PM	#3
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Hi Keith, For more information on how these work check out my post here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38190&perpage=15&pagenumber=1 Sixth down or so. Feel free to ask questions as well! The idea doesn't seem to be all that popular. I suppose a fully functional working model would be requisite to spark any real interest. Still, I'm just wondering if it would be worth my time to order a few extra while I'm at it. Anyway... I hope to have a fully functional prototype done soon. When I do you can most certainly expect footage! Theoretically this adapter would work with any mini35 system though different lens companies would require slightly different anamorphics. I'm focusing on Nikon at the moment.

January 25th, 2005, 10:02 PM	#4
Jonathan Pacheco New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 9	I personally would be totally interested. I'll definitely follow the progress.

January 25th, 2005, 10:45 PM	#5
Keith Kline Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 153	Just like everything else on here, I think alot of people would be more interested in it once there's footage to see. I've been toying with the idea of using a cylinder lens for a front anamorphic, but i couldn't find out if there is a way to calculate the magnification factor of these lenses. Basically what I am trying to figure out is a way to make something like the century optics one that could fit in front of the 35mm prime lens, like an add on wide angle, but so far I haven't been able to figure too much out. Anyone have any ideas on what kind of lenses are in something like the century optics adapter? Like this... http://www.centuryoptics.com/products/dv//133x/133x.htm It seems to me that there has to be a way to make something like this for alot less than the price they're asking for their anamorphic. Something that could thread onto the front of the lens and fit different 35mm lenses. Either way I'm looking forward to finding out whatever you come up with Aaron and I'll be more than happy to help where ever i can.

January 26th, 2005, 09:14 AM	#6
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	The site of the century optics lens says it has a wider view, so does this mean the lens is thicker in the middle or narrower? If there is an optic expert amongst us, could he make a calculation on the curve we need? Or maybe someone has the real thing and measure it. I really think if you bend a flat piece of acryl glass and make a construction with a real glass lens filter, fill it up with water, it would work. The only thing I need is the curve, or an estimate to get testing.

January 26th, 2005, 09:51 AM	#7
Ryan Koo Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 92	I'd definitely be interested if it was feasible and not incredibly expensive--most of us shooting with a mini35-type adapter in place will be going to widescreen, and having to crop PLUS any sharpness loss inherent to the 35 adapter means that you're losing a lot of resolution--a good anamorphic would help re-gain some of that. So yes, I'd be interested... if it works!

January 26th, 2005, 02:09 PM	#8
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Ocar, yes the lens is indeed thicker in the center. Much like this: http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/displayproduct.cfm?productID=2108&search=1 I could run some calculations if you would like. You would need to tell me what brand lens you use though and anything else you can find with regard to the optics contained in the lens. Keith, the magnification factor depends on the interaction of two optical elements. It's not a 100% straightforward topic and the magnification changes depending on the distance as well. If you want an adapter for a 35mm lens that goes on the front I suggest getting ahold of a 16mm anamorphic projector lens. These can usually screw onto the front of a 35mm lens. The only downside is that both the 35mm lens and the anamorphic would have to be focused separately. If you do go this route look for a 1.75x lens though. A 2x will give you a very wide image 2.66:1 or so. Ryan: if it works indeed! I'm actually not worried about getting it to work. I know it works and I can predict the aberrations that the lens might have before constructing it (by working with lens design software). The only question is: "how much would you be willing to pay for such a piece?" You could do this very cheaply but the image quality would suck. You could also do this very expensively which isn't necessary either.

January 26th, 2005, 04:05 PM	#9
Cody Dulock Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: arlington, texas Posts: 420	im interested. pricing?? is it already mounted in a threaded type application or is going to be bayonet style?

January 26th, 2005, 05:19 PM	#11
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Aaron, the lens is a (photographic) cosinon (auto MC) F=1,7 f=50mm no. 756105 That's what it says on the front. I know it's a cheep one, but it is very smooth and light in focusing, that’s why I use it. If you could calculate something, I would be very happy. Even with a rough estimate, so don't make much work on it. I’ll also be following this tread, so maybe I’ll end up buying your lens anyhow. Oh, and is it possible to have a step wider than 16:9? Or would the lens be too thick for a rear lens.

January 26th, 2005, 05:49 PM	#12
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Hi Cody, Heres the dillema. A bayonet style adapter would be preferable I think. The problem? This would extend the focal length of your lens slighty. I could make it as an internal lens but that would require installation and would mean I would have to make many different versions. The only other option is to have one end be bayonet mount and the other replace the mount used in the 35mm adapter. This is how this is usually done with film cameras. While it would still require an installation it would be much simpler (theoretically). My goal is to make this as easy to use as possible (for my own sake if nothing else!) So... I have some thinking to do about actual housing. The lens system is ready to go though. Ocar, what diameter is your lens? You can have the compression be whatever you would like! Would you prefer a different aspect ratio?

January 26th, 2005, 06:46 PM	#13
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	If you mean the diameter of the 35mm lens: 3,2mm is the front lens, the front filter ring is 48mm. The rear lens is 2,5mm. If you mean the lens I will be making, it will be 48mm. 2.35:1 aspect ratio is what I'd want. Thanks.

January 26th, 2005, 07:23 PM	#14
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Alright, I'll see what I can churn out :D. It may take a day or two as I have other things going on as well right now. As for demo footage - Expect some fairly soon! Week or two perhaps.

January 27th, 2005, 02:45 AM	#15
Emmanuel Decarpentrie New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Belgium Posts: 9	Aaron, I too would be quite interested in your adapter, as it would be a very nice upgrade to the micro35 I plan to purchase/build as soon as possible. About the price, I guess anything under $500 would be considered OK, from my point-of-view. Based on the street price from the Panasonic DVX100's anamorphic adapter, I don't think you could easily justify many more bucks than $500, because a "rear system" doesn't have as much glass (AFAIK), and doesn't weight as much as a "front" system... Of course, should you need extra income after a while, you could also make an updated super duper PRO version of your adapter, with no optical distortion at all (even at full wide, and full telephoto), titanium case, lifetime warranty, PL mount, and so on... And sell those for $4000 each, which will sound like quite a good deal for the PRO-market. But, don't forget to test your system with us (the DIY market segment) first :) My 2 cents... Anyway, keep us informed on your progress, as you are making something many people accross the world would be interested in, including, pehaps, the real "mini35" and "movietube" guys :)