1x 35mm 2x DV project at DVinfo.net

Oscar Spierenburg · January 25th, 2005, 05:22 PM

I've started a new tread, so people who haven't read the other one can follow my intentions quickly.

I'm making a 35mm adapter where the image projected on the ground glass is split in left and right and filmed by two identical DV cameras.
So far it’s working great, the image gives a double amount of resolution 720 x 1040 and is synched by starting and stopping with one remote.

Here's a picture of the adapter so far (from top view):
http://s01.picshome.com/52a/doublecam.jpg

Here is a quick test which I only made for synch testing so it's compressed much.

http://www.degalerie.nl/1/test4b.wmv

Obin Olson · January 25th, 2005, 06:43 PM

now THAT is amazing...I would never try to do what your doing but I think it's GREAT!

Oscar Spierenburg · January 29th, 2005, 01:43 PM

I've made test on the blending of the images and focusing with the 35mm lens:

http://www.degalerie.nl/1/test6a.wmv

Thanks for the compliment Obin, I'd definitely never try to do what you’re doing.

Brandon Greenlee · January 29th, 2005, 01:59 PM

That looks incredible. Is it hard to sync the images back up?

Oscar Spierenburg · January 29th, 2005, 04:00 PM

No, I just found out that these (sony) camcorders not only start at the same time with one remote (which I will build onto the camera), but also stop on the exact same frame. So you can shoot a whole sequence of footage and just synch the first frames together, the following takes will be in place too.

The best thing will be capture software that drops all frames that contain no images, so you only need to put the footage on the timeline of an editing program.

Eric Gorski · January 29th, 2005, 06:30 PM

very cool

Oscar Spierenburg · February 4th, 2005, 06:57 PM

Almost done, I need to make a shoulder support because it's becoming a heavy monster. The tests are really coming close to HDV. I'm still testing 720 x 1040 size, but I'll start on a anamorphic lens as soon as Aaron Shaw makes some curve calculations for me.

Aaron Shaw · February 4th, 2005, 07:15 PM

Sorry I haven't gotten to your request ocar. I'll send you an email to discuss the details some more.

EDIT: Oy, your email isn't online (at this site anyway!) - feel free to send me an email.

Dan Diaconu · February 4th, 2005, 08:13 PM

Oscar,
The test looks very "rich" in color (not over saturated, but rich) I like that. I also like that the sky is not washed out while detail is visible in the dark areas. Could you tighten up the frame a touch so you can get rid of the vigneting?
Also, what lens did you use? Looks like a 2.8/35 or 1.4-1.8/50. Is this right? Where was the focus on the BG (at the beginning)
Was it on the red roof? The other high roof on the right seems soft. The overall pic seems soft. Was that focus or "look" from the GG? Anyway, the picture looks very good (rich). If you sort it out (sharpness wise) to take advantage of all the info you capture, would be fantastic.
Hmmmm....
Could it be a slight misalignment between the two cameras (when framing)? (or zoom? even if set to say... wide on both, there might be a tiny dif from the factory....??????)
Anyway, looks goooooood.
Keep it up!!!!!!!!!!!

Oscar Spierenburg · February 4th, 2005, 08:27 PM

I've adjusted the placement of the GG after this test, I think it wasn't set right to focus sharp over a 20 meters.
I have to zoom in some more to avoid the vigneting, your right.

Aaron, only if you have time of course, but here's my e-mail:
lijsten@degalerie.nl

Leo Mandy · February 4th, 2005, 09:36 PM

Where is the mirror exactly? It is really hard to tell from the picture where you are reflecting from - any other pics up yet?

Also, to get close to HD, what do you have to do in the editing suite? How do you combine the two separate footages together?

BTW, amazing ingenuity!

Oscar Spierenburg · February 5th, 2005, 07:24 AM

Here is the drawing I made before building it:
http://s01.picshome.com/52a/double35mmadapter.jpg

It's from top view. I moved the mirror and cameras a little further away from the GG to get more overlap between the footages.
I put the two films in a post software (like after effects) in a 1040 x 720 pixel setup and synch them.
Both films need to rotate 90° (because the cameras are on their sides) and one has to flip (mirror)
Than I align them (it's best to film a grid or something one time) and make a mask that fades the films on the overlapping area.

It's good after 30 minutes of adjusting, to align it exactly right takes longer but if the cameras and settings are left the same (not taken out of the adapter), the settings in the software will also stay the same.

Leo Mandy · February 5th, 2005, 08:31 AM

Yep Oscar, That is what I thought. I really couldn't get my head around how else you had done it, but that seems like the one that would work.

How do you line up the shots exactly? That must be painstaking! The only thing I could suggest is having place markers on either side of a shot - like goal posts - so you can line up the second and first camera left to right. The same goes for top to bottom, but I am guessing you have already figured out how to do that!

Excellent job.

Oscar Spierenburg · February 5th, 2005, 09:26 AM

The cameras are adjustable in the adapter, but they can be little bit off. In the composition software you have to size, rotate and move up and down one of the shots, until the overlapping area is exactly the same. I'll do some tests by filming a pattern (like a grid) and try to match that.
On footage with a non moving camera, you really won't see anything, but when you pan, it's like a raindrop has run in the middle of the lens if the shots aren't lined up well.

Leo Mandy · February 5th, 2005, 10:04 AM

Hey Oscar,

I just realised something too! The camera that is perpendicular to the GG using the mirror, the image will not be reversed! If you could set up a monitor to that one, your shots will be exactly the way they should be!

January 25th, 2005, 05:22 PM	#1
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	1x 35mm 2x DV project I've started a new tread, so people who haven't read the other one can follow my intentions quickly. I'm making a 35mm adapter where the image projected on the ground glass is split in left and right and filmed by two identical DV cameras. So far it’s working great, the image gives a double amount of resolution 720 x 1040 and is synched by starting and stopping with one remote. Here's a picture of the adapter so far (from top view): http://s01.picshome.com/52a/doublecam.jpg Here is a quick test which I only made for synch testing so it's compressed much. http://www.degalerie.nl/1/test4b.wmv

January 29th, 2005, 01:59 PM	#4
Brandon Greenlee Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: North Alabama Posts: 242	That looks incredible. Is it hard to sync the images back up? __________________ Brandon Greenlee

January 25th, 2005, 06:43 PM	#2
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	now THAT is amazing...I would never try to do what your doing but I think it's GREAT!

January 29th, 2005, 01:43 PM	#3
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	I've made test on the blending of the images and focusing with the 35mm lens: http://www.degalerie.nl/1/test6a.wmv Thanks for the compliment Obin, I'd definitely never try to do what you’re doing.

January 29th, 2005, 04:00 PM	#5
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	No, I just found out that these (sony) camcorders not only start at the same time with one remote (which I will build onto the camera), but also stop on the exact same frame. So you can shoot a whole sequence of footage and just synch the first frames together, the following takes will be in place too. The best thing will be capture software that drops all frames that contain no images, so you only need to put the footage on the timeline of an editing program.

January 29th, 2005, 06:30 PM	#6
Eric Gorski Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Western Oregon Posts: 138	very cool

February 4th, 2005, 06:57 PM	#7
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Almost done, I need to make a shoulder support because it's becoming a heavy monster. The tests are really coming close to HDV. I'm still testing 720 x 1040 size, but I'll start on a anamorphic lens as soon as Aaron Shaw makes some curve calculations for me.

February 4th, 2005, 07:15 PM	#8
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Sorry I haven't gotten to your request ocar. I'll send you an email to discuss the details some more. EDIT: Oy, your email isn't online (at this site anyway!) - feel free to send me an email.

February 4th, 2005, 08:13 PM	#9
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	Oscar, The test looks very "rich" in color (not over saturated, but rich) I like that. I also like that the sky is not washed out while detail is visible in the dark areas. Could you tighten up the frame a touch so you can get rid of the vigneting? Also, what lens did you use? Looks like a 2.8/35 or 1.4-1.8/50. Is this right? Where was the focus on the BG (at the beginning) Was it on the red roof? The other high roof on the right seems soft. The overall pic seems soft. Was that focus or "look" from the GG? Anyway, the picture looks very good (rich). If you sort it out (sharpness wise) to take advantage of all the info you capture, would be fantastic. Hmmmm.... Could it be a slight misalignment between the two cameras (when framing)? (or zoom? even if set to say... wide on both, there might be a tiny dif from the factory....??????) Anyway, looks goooooood. Keep it up!!!!!!!!!!!

February 4th, 2005, 08:27 PM	#10
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	I've adjusted the placement of the GG after this test, I think it wasn't set right to focus sharp over a 20 meters. I have to zoom in some more to avoid the vigneting, your right. Aaron, only if you have time of course, but here's my e-mail: lijsten@degalerie.nl

February 4th, 2005, 09:36 PM	#11
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Where is the mirror exactly? It is really hard to tell from the picture where you are reflecting from - any other pics up yet? Also, to get close to HD, what do you have to do in the editing suite? How do you combine the two separate footages together? BTW, amazing ingenuity!

February 5th, 2005, 07:24 AM	#12
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Here is the drawing I made before building it: http://s01.picshome.com/52a/double35mmadapter.jpg It's from top view. I moved the mirror and cameras a little further away from the GG to get more overlap between the footages. I put the two films in a post software (like after effects) in a 1040 x 720 pixel setup and synch them. Both films need to rotate 90° (because the cameras are on their sides) and one has to flip (mirror) Than I align them (it's best to film a grid or something one time) and make a mask that fades the films on the overlapping area. It's good after 30 minutes of adjusting, to align it exactly right takes longer but if the cameras and settings are left the same (not taken out of the adapter), the settings in the software will also stay the same.

February 5th, 2005, 08:31 AM	#13
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Yep Oscar, That is what I thought. I really couldn't get my head around how else you had done it, but that seems like the one that would work. How do you line up the shots exactly? That must be painstaking! The only thing I could suggest is having place markers on either side of a shot - like goal posts - so you can line up the second and first camera left to right. The same goes for top to bottom, but I am guessing you have already figured out how to do that! Excellent job.

February 5th, 2005, 09:26 AM	#14
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	The cameras are adjustable in the adapter, but they can be little bit off. In the composition software you have to size, rotate and move up and down one of the shots, until the overlapping area is exactly the same. I'll do some tests by filming a pattern (like a grid) and try to match that. On footage with a non moving camera, you really won't see anything, but when you pan, it's like a raindrop has run in the middle of the lens if the shots aren't lined up well.

February 5th, 2005, 10:04 AM	#15
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Hey Oscar, I just realised something too! The camera that is perpendicular to the GG using the mirror, the image will not be reversed! If you could set up a monitor to that one, your shots will be exactly the way they should be!