Macro Lens question

[Leo Mandy]

Thanks Bob,

It is a KIRON - the writing says :
80-200mm f/4 MACRO 1:4 055 MC

The end of it is a round circle with three raised edges for locking and there is a protrusion of black plastic that I assume is there to protect the IRIS opener and closer.

It looks similar to this, but I think I have the 'light' model

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3340&item=3868109573&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW#ebayphotohosting

My video camera has written on the front :

10X optical 43mm
f=3.85~38.5 1:1.8

But the front part comes off to reveal the thread and the guy at the camera store wasn't sure what size it was - I think he said it was a different number like 41mm or 42mm.

Does this help?

[Bob Hart]

That is definitely a 35mm SLR still-camera lens. The version shown on ebay is for Yashica.

That lens if you use it, goes on the front of your Agus or Aldu about 46mm give or take a few mm, away from your groundglass. At f4.5, it is not likely to yield a satisfactory image. It may vignette or hotspot excessively and the image will darken the furthur into the zoom you progress unless your videocam is set to auto exposure.

If it will fit inside a Pringles can, buy a long can, save the frosted lid (there's two types, one in Europe with frosting on one side, an excellent gg for tests, the other in the US which is frosted all through and less clear. Eat the crisps, break the metal end out of the can so you are left with a tube, shove your zoom lens in if it will fit, if it is sloppy, pack it tight with an ankle-half cut off a holey sock or two wrapped around the lens barrel. Use the plastic cap over the other end for a gg screen.

Get in a dark room and use the assembly to look out of a window. With the backend of the lens about 45mm away from the Pringles cap gg, the projected image viewed on the rear of the Pringles cap is going to have to be a circle of even brightness about 32mm in diameter to be any good on an Agus, setup for the 35mm movie frame of 24mm x 18mm.

If it's any help, the movie clip on www.dvinfo.net/media/hart was shot through a dirt cheap secondhand Cimko 28mm - 85mm zoom which went f3.8 to f4.5 yet produced an entirely acceptable result except for the darkening when zoomed in. So there is really no knowing until you test. Even if it vignettes, a condenser may help but the consensus seems to be f1.8 prime lenses are the way to go.

I think the frame grabs from that clip are named mtatk1.jpg or similar if you want a closer look at the image. If you do, you may observe some interlace artifacts from a shaky disk.

[Leo Mandy]

Ok, thanks Bob. What I am going to do is this : I have two KENKO lenses for my DV camera (these I guess I can sub for 35mm lenses for now). I am going to try the pringles can this, but I must figure out a way to stick the FROSTED CD or the GG into the tube (if I can't find the frosted lid, maybe I will try wax paper or something similiar that I can find at the $1 store - and then I will try the MACRO lens and see what happens.
This is great Bob, now I can finally test this thing out. I will let you know.

[Bob Hart]

Mandy.

The white plastic lid itself becomes the gg. If it is the US product, the lid will be opaque through its entire thickness so you could cut a hole in that, leave a 1/4 inch edge and use the lid as a ring clamp to secure a piece of lunchwrap (or architectural film if you can get it) across the end of the tube as a gg. This is only for testing by eye. If you want to video it, then you would need to add another tube to block out the sidelight between the lid/gg and your cam.

[Leo Mandy]

Bob,

Ok, big breakthrough for me! I finally got an image that I can use and show. I will post is shortly.
So this is what I did -
ACTION >> MACRO LENS (KIRON) >> gg (CD) >> dv CAMERA

It looks good, upside down and all, but here is where I am unsure how to continue.

To get focused on an object, I need to constantly move the macro lens either forward or backwards (because it is not stationary, I have it sitting on a tripod and I physically move it forward or backward depending on what object I want to focus in on)

When I focus on foreground objects, the background isn't always out of focus - sometimes it is as in focus as the background.
If I try to rack focus, I end up blurring everything rather than pulling one thing in focus and the other out.

And lastly, my Macro lens is about 3 inches away from the GG and the DV cam is also about 3 inches away - that makes for one big housing for the entire piece!

What am I missing here?

[Leo Mandy]

Ok, here is what it looks like:

http://dvstuff.250free.com

There is also a small explanation available with the pictures. Another thing, this little motor I got is amazing considering it is from a toy - there is very little if any movement when it gets up to full speed!

[Kyle Ringin]

Mandy,
It sounds like you are using the video camera to focus. The video camera must always be focussed on the ground glass (or substitute). You must pull focus with the focus ring on the 35mm lens.

Cheers.

[Leo Mandy]

Thanks for the info! that helps out alot, now at least I know what to shoot for. The housing is my next project I am working on before I go and purchase the Micro35. If I can do it on my own, I am going to go for it- if it becomes more of a headache, the manual i will get!

[Bob Hart]

The depth of field effect still depends on the zoom setting of your Kiron lens on front. Here follows a quick and dirty description of prime lenses and their effect, which except of sharpness and aperture, can be replicated on your Kiron lens once you have set the backfocus correctly. Your Kiron by the way should be set up without the "macro" function on it having been selected, otherwise it's is not going to hold focus through the zoom.

----

28mm = fairly sharp across all of image close and far. Perspectively, distant objects look more distant. Movement towards or away from camera or forward and reverse tracking movements of the camera will be accentuated for apparent speed. An impressive dynamic creative tool for action scenes.

50mm = reasonably sharp focus across all of image close but objects within the focussed area will be visibly sharper and set off against foreground and background. Perspectively, this lens replicates most naturally the human eye's view.

85mm = visibly softer on objects in foreground and background. You have a band of about 18 inches which is crisp to acceptably sharp. Perspectively, but not yet noticeably, objects begin to look flatter and distances are foreshortened.

105mm = a portrait still-photographer's favoured lens. A sharply focussed subject is set off against a soft background which does not have to be too far away. Perspectively objects are a little flatter and distances are foreshortened but again not detrimental to the image. This is about where convenient and affordable f1.8 aperture availability runs out.

135mm = a very useful portrait and outdoors lens, usually f2.8 is about as wide as it can be conveniently of affordably had. Persepctively, the flattening effect begins to be obvious. At this end and evenmore so in longer zooms, movements towards and away from camera and forward and reverse tracking movements of the camera are diminshed. A useful dynamic effect on roadways and trails for creating a sense of of a person paddling like hell and getting nowhere.

Please, if there are any 'fessional 'toggreffers out there, please correct any incorrect info and amplify what I have missed out.

[Goh Iromoto]

Hello,

I'm new to the forums and like most people, have done some mad reading to catch up on the 35mm adapter threads.

I'm now at the stage of collecting my parts and was wondering if I can get a bit more help on MACRO lenses...(I posted on this thread cause I noticed a great deal of info already).

somebody previously mentioned:

For your purposes I doubt you will need a macro lens since your camera has a 44mm thread. The macro comes into play with larger cameras such as the XL2 and DVX which have 72mm threads.

I have a 43mm thread (Pana GS-400)...Would I not even need a macro between the camera and gg? Or should I get something that isn't as strong (2x or 4x as opposed to 7x or 10x suggested by larger cameras)

Also, two more things:

1) The thread size - Since barely any manufacture carries a lens thats stronger than 4x for 43mm threads, is it a wise idea to use a step-up ring for the MACRO? Will there be some vignetting/dark corners? OR will it be ok? I can find a good one (HOYA @ 49mm)

2) Also, what's a recommendable company at a reasonable price. So far Century Optics is out of my range, I was looking into HOYA and B&W. I'm worried about distortion, halo rings, vignetting, etc.?? Any comments

Thanks a lot guys, I appreciate all the info on the forums...and Mandy, good luck, your device is looking good :)

[Oscar Spierenburg]

You don't need a macro lens, filter (sorry Kyle!).