IMAGE FLIP/FLOP Group's new assignement at DVinfo.net

Dan Diaconu · January 13th, 2005, 02:45 PM

In an effort to "minimize the discomfort" of watching an image reversed U/D and L/R (as projected by a lens on a surface and possibly recoded by a camcorder), here is a thought:

The image from a lens (prime or zoom) is reversed on a surface at the focal plane. (As in any camcorder/still/MP camera)

Now......

A camcorder does not display the image as projected on the CCD!!!

Right?

That means that there is a "litle devil" in there that flips the pic.

Right?

Now...

If an image from a lens ends up on a screen/GG (reversed U/D and L/R) and the camcorder records THAT image (as is) that means that a
"normal" image can be obtained without prisms and mirrors. (Bingo?) Anyone ?

But who's to go "in there" to find that iresponsable "litle devil" that scews-up the pic in the first place? (I aint going, but maibe someone will.....)

For all seeking a sloution to any 35mm adapters, THIS might be easier than
flipping ALLWAYS ALL the footage in post? (and the monitor's image for framing) (or having big and heavy optics in front of the lens to do the "dirty"......)

Would it not?...... just a thought..................(while waiting for parts)

Aaron Shaw · January 13th, 2005, 03:25 PM

This could probably be done but I don't know too many people who would be willing to rip into their cameras to experiment - especially those with a DVX or other costly camera. The guy who ripped into the FX1 was crazy enough as it is!

Filip Kovcin · January 13th, 2005, 03:29 PM

dan,

this thing is already mentioned in similar way on other threads connected with agus/aldu things.

in my opinion the easiest thing on the earth will be to turn that CCD upside down, and you do not need any electronics or programing. but usually - at least as far as i know - those elements are for obvious reason connected with other vital electronics via very short connector and you can not turn it upside down just like that. but at least you can try.

filip

Dan Diaconu · January 13th, 2005, 04:37 PM

Thank you both,

On a second thought, if the image was to be upright in the monitor (assuming someone would pull the right "pins" to Gnd
and recorded "straight" on tape, that would be exported as "flipped".

The monitor flip might be indeed the closest to implement (it needs 2 flips though) but that leaves to post the "real" flipping. I am not talking about a quick "on the fly" for editing. I had in mind HD footage. (more info on each frame)
But computers are getting better and cheaper every day....

Anyway, the idea was that flip/flop is by far easier and less expensive when done electronically than using optics (and precise mechanic mounts for them) Sorry for repeating an older topic.

Matt Champagne · January 13th, 2005, 07:53 PM

If my understanding of how a ccd works is correct....there isn't technically a flip done at any point in the electroinics because the image is never assembled in digital form upside down. If you simplify the concept and think of it as just a verticle row of pixels...the pixels are read serially and placed into a stack in last in first out order (I think). In other words...it just reads from the bottom up.

I haven't studied ccd or cmos technology extensively though...that is just sort of a guess...but what I'm saying is that there is no reason the image would ever be taken in digital form as an upside down image...and thus there is technically no programming to remove to bring it back to its original upside down form. Just think about Juans mod...he is getting the original ccd image before processing..and it is not upside down.

January 13th, 2005, 02:45 PM	#1
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	IMAGE FLIP/FLOP Group's new assignement In an effort to "minimize the discomfort" of watching an image reversed U/D and L/R (as projected by a lens on a surface and possibly recoded by a camcorder), here is a thought: The image from a lens (prime or zoom) is reversed on a surface at the focal plane. (As in any camcorder/still/MP camera) Now...... A camcorder does not display the image as projected on the CCD!!! Right? That means that there is a "litle devil" in there that flips the pic. Right? Now... If an image from a lens ends up on a screen/GG (reversed U/D and L/R) and the camcorder records THAT image (as is) that means that a "normal" image can be obtained without prisms and mirrors. (Bingo?) Anyone ? But who's to go "in there" to find that iresponsable "litle devil" that scews-up the pic in the first place? (I aint going, but maibe someone will.....) For all seeking a sloution to any 35mm adapters, THIS might be easier than flipping ALLWAYS ALL the footage in post? (and the monitor's image for framing) (or having big and heavy optics in front of the lens to do the "dirty"......) Would it not?...... just a thought..................(while waiting for parts)

January 13th, 2005, 03:25 PM	#2
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	This could probably be done but I don't know too many people who would be willing to rip into their cameras to experiment - especially those with a DVX or other costly camera. The guy who ripped into the FX1 was crazy enough as it is!

January 13th, 2005, 03:29 PM	#3
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	dan, this thing is already mentioned in similar way on other threads connected with agus/aldu things. in my opinion the easiest thing on the earth will be to turn that CCD upside down, and you do not need any electronics or programing. but usually - at least as far as i know - those elements are for obvious reason connected with other vital electronics via very short connector and you can not turn it upside down just like that. but at least you can try. filip

January 13th, 2005, 04:37 PM	#4
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	Thank you both, On a second thought, if the image was to be upright in the monitor (assuming someone would pull the right "pins" to Gnd and recorded "straight" on tape, that would be exported as "flipped". The monitor flip might be indeed the closest to implement (it needs 2 flips though) but that leaves to post the "real" flipping. I am not talking about a quick "on the fly" for editing. I had in mind HD footage. (more info on each frame) But computers are getting better and cheaper every day.... Anyway, the idea was that flip/flop is by far easier and less expensive when done electronically than using optics (and precise mechanic mounts for them) Sorry for repeating an older topic.

January 13th, 2005, 07:53 PM	#5
Matt Champagne Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Iberia, LA Posts: 229	If my understanding of how a ccd works is correct....there isn't technically a flip done at any point in the electroinics because the image is never assembled in digital form upside down. If you simplify the concept and think of it as just a verticle row of pixels...the pixels are read serially and placed into a stack in last in first out order (I think). In other words...it just reads from the bottom up. I haven't studied ccd or cmos technology extensively though...that is just sort of a guess...but what I'm saying is that there is no reason the image would ever be taken in digital form as an upside down image...and thus there is technically no programming to remove to bring it back to its original upside down form. Just think about Juans mod...he is getting the original ccd image before processing..and it is not upside down.