Alternatives to SI and Sumix

Laurence Maher · December 1st, 2004, 11:42 PM

Tell me what you think about this box camera built "specifically for digital cinema/tv" . . .

http://www.isgchips.com/Templates/t_quadhdtv.htm

Looks incredible, but I imagine it costs a lot?

John Nagle · December 2nd, 2004, 12:18 AM

Ronald,

I hope you can make some use of it and if you think any of the ideas there might translate to the projects here please post.

Laurence,

That is a serious camera, very big on the WOW! factor only trouble is it’s also very big on the price factor as well $85k as far as I know.

Larry Liang · December 22nd, 2004, 06:07 AM

The price for the bare 4-HD sensor is around 50K $. Olympus has developed one type of HD camera based on such sensor.

For alternative choice of camera head, pls. check www.elphel.com

Elphel's camera use the micron's 1.3 Mega and 3 Mega sensor. It can output Motion-Jpeg stream with a speed of 22 fps@1280*1024, 31fps@1280*720.

With Elphel's camera, it is much easier for storage, because the video has been compressed before output, but hard to display: you need additional CPU capacity of decoding the JPEG picture. Generally, To display the video with full speed and resolution, a 3G P4.CPU is needed.

Conor Ryan · December 22nd, 2004, 10:13 PM

I saw this camera, CCD, 2048x2048, cameralink. according to my (suspect) calculations it will do 60fps at 2048x1080. I could be wildly wrong here, so take it with a pinch of salt. Neither have I seen pictures from this camera.

on the upside, f-mount, and a 4/3" chip.
on the downside, costs a little under $6000.

http://www.cohu-cameras.com/products/7900.htm

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn · December 23rd, 2004, 07:12 AM

How on earth are you able to get 60 fps at 2048x1080 from a sensor wich runs at 8 fps at 2048x2048 ???

Larry Liang · December 23rd, 2004, 06:52 PM

Generally, the CCD sensor's data rate is lower than that of CMOS sensor.
if the fps is 8 at 2048 by 2048, it will less than 16 at 2048 by 1080
I have find some CCD sensor with very high data rate, but such sensor is only monochrome type, seems only designed for the 3-CCD camera.

http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/d...MD00014AEC.pdf

Conor Ryan · December 23rd, 2004, 07:24 PM

well, i said i could be wildly wrong. if you mail them they can send you out their calculation formula.

Larry Liang · December 23rd, 2004, 07:37 PM

The limitation for fps is the maximum frequency of the sensor's clock. Normally, with partial scanning, higher fps can be achieved, but the total pixel is output in certain time is almost constant ( only a littler lower for small window).

Valeriu Campan · December 24th, 2004, 08:52 PM

Merry Christmas all!

The new "Motion" series cameras from the RedLake is quite interesting: http://redlake.com/high_speed/index.html.
High speed (650fps!!!) at 1280x1024 with 12 micron size pixels. Sensor size is 1", larger than s16mm and closer to 35mm movie frame size.
The cameras have internal memory (4G) where data can be stored before dowloading to laptop computer (PC and/or Mac!!!) via USB cable; no frame grabbers and the host computer is not a high spec machine.

Larry Liang · December 24th, 2004, 09:47 PM

Merry X'mas!

The RedLake should ( I guess) the Micron's MT9M413 sensor. Such sensor has a sensitive area of 15.4mm by 12.3, smaller the 1/4 of 35mm film.
http://download.micron.com/pdf/datas...m413c36stc.pdf

4 GB memory can store about 100 second video in 1280*720*30fps*10bit.

Valeriu Campan · December 24th, 2004, 10:51 PM

From the RedLake's brochures I understand that you can transfer the data to the computer as well, by-passing the internal memory. I must read the manual closer to see if that's possible.

Valeriu Campan · December 29th, 2004, 02:22 AM

A recent re-visit to a camera site came up with this:
http://www.visiblesolutions.com/phantomv9.html
A bit scary: global shutter, 1000fps at full sensor (1600x1200), 600 ISO/color, Nikon lenses, optional 12G on board memory will deliver acording to my calulations ~ 4.4 mins@24fps (6400 frames at full resoultion - same as the 400 foot magazine on a 35mm camera), optional continuous output to a external storage device via Gbit ethernet, firewire and SDI output (PAL, NTSC)...
Am I dreaming? Correct me if I'm wrong!
Should find out the price of this toy... Hope is not $$$$$

Laurence Maher · December 29th, 2004, 03:09 AM

Uh . . . wow . . . this thing looks tastey.

Someone find out the price please.

Larry Liang · December 29th, 2004, 05:04 AM

I guess, 10K$

John Nagle · December 29th, 2004, 10:50 AM

I think the Phantom cameras have been mentioned before and I think they are a lot more that $10k.

I hope I am wrong and have emailed them for a price list I will post when I get a reply.

December 22nd, 2004, 06:07 AM	#18
Larry Liang New Boot Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Shanghai China Posts: 11	The price for the bare 4-HD sensor is around 50K $. Olympus has developed one type of HD camera based on such sensor. For alternative choice of camera head, pls. check www.elphel.com Elphel's camera use the micron's 1.3 Mega and 3 Mega sensor. It can output Motion-Jpeg stream with a speed of 22 fps@12801024, 31fps@1280720. With Elphel's camera, it is much easier for storage, because the video has been compressed before output, but hard to display: you need additional CPU capacity of decoding the JPEG picture. Generally, To display the video with full speed and resolution, a 3G P4.CPU is needed. __________________ HD Video Over Ethernet? www.elphel.com

December 22nd, 2004, 10:13 PM	#19
Conor Ryan Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 67	camera head possibility I saw this camera, CCD, 2048x2048, cameralink. according to my (suspect) calculations it will do 60fps at 2048x1080. I could be wildly wrong here, so take it with a pinch of salt. Neither have I seen pictures from this camera. on the upside, f-mount, and a 4/3" chip. on the downside, costs a little under $6000. http://www.cohu-cameras.com/products/7900.htm

December 23rd, 2004, 06:52 PM	#21
Larry Liang New Boot Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Shanghai China Posts: 11	Generally, the CCD sensor's data rate is lower than that of CMOS sensor. if the fps is 8 at 2048 by 2048, it will less than 16 at 2048 by 1080 I have find some CCD sensor with very high data rate, but such sensor is only monochrome type, seems only designed for the 3-CCD camera. http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/d...MD00014AEC.pdf __________________ HD Video Over Ethernet? www.elphel.com

December 23rd, 2004, 07:37 PM	#23
Larry Liang New Boot Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Shanghai China Posts: 11	The limitation for fps is the maximum frequency of the sensor's clock. Normally, with partial scanning, higher fps can be achieved, but the total pixel is output in certain time is almost constant ( only a littler lower for small window). __________________ HD Video Over Ethernet? www.elphel.com

December 24th, 2004, 09:47 PM	#25
Larry Liang New Boot Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Shanghai China Posts: 11	Merry X'mas! The RedLake should ( I guess) the Micron's MT9M413 sensor. Such sensor has a sensitive area of 15.4mm by 12.3, smaller the 1/4 of 35mm film. http://download.micron.com/pdf/datas...m413c36stc.pdf 4 GB memory can store about 100 second video in 128072030fps*10bit. __________________ HD Video Over Ethernet? www.elphel.com

December 1st, 2004, 11:42 PM	#16
Laurence Maher Join Date: May 2004 Location: denton, texas, usa Posts: 416	Tell me what you think about this box camera built "specifically for digital cinema/tv" . . . http://www.isgchips.com/Templates/t_quadhdtv.htm Looks incredible, but I imagine it costs a lot?

December 2nd, 2004, 12:18 AM	#17
John Nagle Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	Ronald, I hope you can make some use of it and if you think any of the ideas there might translate to the projects here please post. Laurence, That is a serious camera, very big on the WOW! factor only trouble is it’s also very big on the price factor as well $85k as far as I know.

December 23rd, 2004, 07:12 AM	#20
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina Posts: 444	How on earth are you able to get 60 fps at 2048x1080 from a sensor wich runs at 8 fps at 2048x2048 ???

December 23rd, 2004, 07:24 PM	#22
Conor Ryan Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 67	well, i said i could be wildly wrong. if you mail them they can send you out their calculation formula.

December 24th, 2004, 08:52 PM	#24
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	Merry Christmas all! The new "Motion" series cameras from the RedLake is quite interesting: http://redlake.com/high_speed/index.html. High speed (650fps!!!) at 1280x1024 with 12 micron size pixels. Sensor size is 1", larger than s16mm and closer to 35mm movie frame size. The cameras have internal memory (4G) where data can be stored before dowloading to laptop computer (PC and/or Mac!!!) via USB cable; no frame grabbers and the host computer is not a high spec machine.

December 24th, 2004, 10:51 PM	#26
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	From the RedLake's brochures I understand that you can transfer the data to the computer as well, by-passing the internal memory. I must read the manual closer to see if that's possible.

December 29th, 2004, 02:22 AM	#27
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	A recent re-visit to a camera site came up with this: http://www.visiblesolutions.com/phantomv9.html A bit scary: global shutter, 1000fps at full sensor (1600x1200), 600 ISO/color, Nikon lenses, optional 12G on board memory will deliver acording to my calulations ~ 4.4 mins@24fps (6400 frames at full resoultion - same as the 400 foot magazine on a 35mm camera), optional continuous output to a external storage device via Gbit ethernet, firewire and SDI output (PAL, NTSC)... Am I dreaming? Correct me if I'm wrong! Should find out the price of this toy... Hope is not $$$$$

December 29th, 2004, 03:09 AM	#28
Laurence Maher Join Date: May 2004 Location: denton, texas, usa Posts: 416	Uh . . . wow . . . this thing looks tastey. Someone find out the price please.

December 29th, 2004, 05:04 AM	#29
Larry Liang New Boot Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Shanghai China Posts: 11	I guess, 10K$ __________________ HD Video Over Ethernet? www.elphel.com

December 29th, 2004, 10:50 AM	#30
John Nagle Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	I think the Phantom cameras have been mentioned before and I think they are a lot more that $10k. I hope I am wrong and have emailed them for a price list I will post when I get a reply.