Rai & Markus' "Drake" HD camera

Joshua Starnes · June 7th, 2005, 11:14 AM

A bit of an update on the Drake:

According to the website they were planning on rolling out the camera for sale and rental beginning in June. With no update to the website I emailed Marcus to find out what was going on.

He e-mailed me back to tell me that they are doing some new tests on the camera to bring it to true 12-bit recording, and are now looking at releasing it for sale in August.

So that's where it's at right now, 12-bit (probably 4:2:2, maybe 4:4:4, they didn't say) 2/3" chip 720p (though it may be 1080p by the time they get 12-bit going, they say their working on that too) for $20,000.

Wayne Morellini · June 8th, 2005, 12:01 AM

Hmm.. Updates! ;)

Adam Burtle · June 30th, 2005, 02:16 AM

Rai i just sent you an email using the forum's "email member" feature. Feel free to reply when you have a second, thanks.

Frank Schoerner · July 15th, 2005, 03:33 PM

No update?
No new clips?
Whats going on?

Rob Lohman · July 17th, 2005, 06:18 AM

Updates here on DVInfo from the Drake team have been inconsistent at best
(I'm not judging anyone here, their time is obviously valuable). The high price
tag (for most people) of the camera (system) may have resulted in some loss
of interest as well? I know I certainly can't afford that kind of money.

Wayne Morellini · July 18th, 2005, 11:50 PM

Expect more from them, I forget what has been mentioned here, but I imagine new models/upgrades, smaller cameras, and obviously with new models different price points.

Haven't heard from Rai for months myself, so must be busy with something.

The market is tough, price too high and people that can afford it start looking at upgrading their expectations to name brand equipment. Just a matter of finding the sweet spot where people wont go for higher or lower price equipment.

Levan Bakhia · August 23rd, 2005, 11:38 AM

Here is the update about DRAKE. After discussing with DRAKE team when the camera will be available (they promised to have one prototype ready by the begining of August) I went to Germany to actually see and test the camera. And this is a long way too. What I saw was not very impressive in terms of how camera was set up. It of course was not the final version as you can see designs on their web page, but to my surprise it was not even a stand alone camera, it was a camera head connected to a small computer, and it was not easy to move the camera even for 20 meters from where it was set up. Well but this is not a big deal, because you could easily get an idea that it is not finished, it is just that I expected that the camera was much far ahead in terms of development stage. Well, on the other hand, I saw materials shot will camera, and I also had a chance to shoot surrounding with it. I shoot the sky, with some clouds and after some experimenting with the curves and setups I achieved a very good quality of the picture, no I could say that I was very happy with the picture, I also shot myself. Well to sum, the quality was so good that I decided to purchase one. Well I discussed with Marc and he promised to have the prototype ready by the end of August. So we agreed and I left. Several days ago I got news that they have some kind of problem with the sensor and camera will not be ready for the next half year. Well I am kind of upset, because I have delayed several of my project from June to end of August in hope to shoot with DRAKE, and what I got at the end of the August is nothing. And yes, they knew it, they knew I delayed my projects.

I also recomended the camera to so many people, that would help them to sell the camera in the Russian, Caucasus and Ukraine markets, and I feel very uncomfortable telling them that camera is not available at all.

So, keep in mind, DRAKE is a very good camera in terms of picture quality, at least what I saw was increadable. It is very film like and has lots of functions. The best part is that it records in a file format so that you can change all the setting later in post production and you need not to worry about it during the actuall shot. Well I would recomend this camera to all of you out there who seek something that looks like film and have less budget. But keep in mind my experience.

Wayne Morellini · August 23rd, 2005, 11:53 PM

Drake, sounds vaguely familiar from the past?

End of last year, I think, they showed a full working prototype in one unit (with detachable head for filming on mount) that seemed to have small computer audio sockets on the back. You probably saw an adaption of that or the unit the used to film Dragon feather last year. Haven't heard from Rai for a while.

What sensor did it have, the old one or the new one? Some of these production engineering problems can be fiddly and delay it much, but this is a disappointment, maybe they are delaying for a new sensor or two.

Frank Schoerner · August 24th, 2005, 02:13 AM

Two months ago, i saw the working DRAKE camera on a HD event in germany. But what i saw was not a small computer, it was the camera from their web page. I dont know why they show you not this camera. I saw also new 12Bit (not 8bit) uncompressed materials shot with this camera and it was ultas impressive.

BTW: Last months. the german magazine computervideo showed DRAKE on their cover.

http://www.computervideo.de/ausgaben/cv4_05-inhalt.htm

A half year ago, the german magazin CUT had a cover story with the DRAKE team:

http://www.cut.biz/heft.php?abo_id=1...l&show_id=1718

Wolfgang Neun · August 24th, 2005, 02:31 AM

Levan, Thanks for sharing your experience!
Same question: Which sensor have you experimented with? Still the IBIS5A?
In coincidence only yesterday film-tv-video have published a report on the Drake camera at
http://www.film-tv-video.de/newsdeta...49fab1f8d.html
Unfortunately it's in German language only but downloadable as a pdf of 8 pages. You have to register first (for free of course). Here they say that "a fully developed and intensively tested Drake camera will be available from August 2005, the price of a complete system being about 15,000 Euro excl. VAT."
There are some nice pictures accompanying the report. The design of the "final" Drake version looks "cool", IMHO.

Frank Schoerner · August 24th, 2005, 03:38 AM

Thanks Wolfgang, i went to this side, registry and found this link to the PDF without registry need:

http://www.film-tv-video.de/uploads/...0705_Drake.pdf

Wayne Morellini · August 24th, 2005, 08:29 AM

..........

Steve Nordhauser · August 24th, 2005, 10:26 AM

Wayne,
I don't know the details but there have been some serious health issues involved. I don't think they went dark on purpose. I know they are still dedicated to bringing out a moderate cost lossless compression camera.
Steve

Keith Wakeham · August 24th, 2005, 10:44 AM

I'm glad to see that they are getting some exposure and we already know that the camera is a working device. It's like anything, production takes time.

Just look at kinetta, the camera was all over the place and has recently fell silent and nobody really knows whats going on with that either. They were delayed for altasens and now we know altasens is in full production and that camera still isn't out.

Give them some time and drake will surely show up.

Wayne Morellini · August 24th, 2005, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Nordhauser

Wayne,
I don't know the details but there have been some serious health issues involved. I don't think they went dark on purpose. I know they are still dedicated to bringing out a moderate cost lossless compression camera.
Steve

Hmm, yes, I did know of a health issue, but I thought that stabilised a while ago, hope it's ok. My head is swimming today, 5am and time for bed.

July 17th, 2005, 06:18 AM	#275
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Updates here on DVInfo from the Drake team have been inconsistent at best (I'm not judging anyone here, their time is obviously valuable). The high price tag (for most people) of the camera (system) may have resulted in some loss of interest as well? I know I certainly can't afford that kind of money. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 23rd, 2005, 11:38 AM	#277
Levan Bakhia Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 230	Update Here is the update about DRAKE. After discussing with DRAKE team when the camera will be available (they promised to have one prototype ready by the begining of August) I went to Germany to actually see and test the camera. And this is a long way too. What I saw was not very impressive in terms of how camera was set up. It of course was not the final version as you can see designs on their web page, but to my surprise it was not even a stand alone camera, it was a camera head connected to a small computer, and it was not easy to move the camera even for 20 meters from where it was set up. Well but this is not a big deal, because you could easily get an idea that it is not finished, it is just that I expected that the camera was much far ahead in terms of development stage. Well, on the other hand, I saw materials shot will camera, and I also had a chance to shoot surrounding with it. I shoot the sky, with some clouds and after some experimenting with the curves and setups I achieved a very good quality of the picture, no I could say that I was very happy with the picture, I also shot myself. Well to sum, the quality was so good that I decided to purchase one. Well I discussed with Marc and he promised to have the prototype ready by the end of August. So we agreed and I left. Several days ago I got news that they have some kind of problem with the sensor and camera will not be ready for the next half year. Well I am kind of upset, because I have delayed several of my project from June to end of August in hope to shoot with DRAKE, and what I got at the end of the August is nothing. And yes, they knew it, they knew I delayed my projects. I also recomended the camera to so many people, that would help them to sell the camera in the Russian, Caucasus and Ukraine markets, and I feel very uncomfortable telling them that camera is not available at all. So, keep in mind, DRAKE is a very good camera in terms of picture quality, at least what I saw was increadable. It is very film like and has lots of functions. The best part is that it records in a file format so that you can change all the setting later in post production and you need not to worry about it during the actuall shot. Well I would recomend this camera to all of you out there who seek something that looks like film and have less budget. But keep in mind my experience.

August 24th, 2005, 08:29 AM	#282
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	.......... Last edited by Wayne Morellini; August 24th, 2005 at 01:08 PM.

August 24th, 2005, 10:26 AM	#283
Steve Nordhauser Silicon Imaging, Inc. Join Date: May 2004 Location: Troy, NY USA Posts: 325	Wayne, I don't know the details but there have been some serious health issues involved. I don't think they went dark on purpose. I know they are still dedicated to bringing out a moderate cost lossless compression camera. Steve __________________ Silicon Imaging, Inc. We see the Light! http://www.siliconimaging.com

June 7th, 2005, 11:14 AM	#271
Joshua Starnes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 356	A bit of an update on the Drake: According to the website they were planning on rolling out the camera for sale and rental beginning in June. With no update to the website I emailed Marcus to find out what was going on. He e-mailed me back to tell me that they are doing some new tests on the camera to bring it to true 12-bit recording, and are now looking at releasing it for sale in August. So that's where it's at right now, 12-bit (probably 4:2:2, maybe 4:4:4, they didn't say) 2/3" chip 720p (though it may be 1080p by the time they get 12-bit going, they say their working on that too) for $20,000.

June 8th, 2005, 12:01 AM	#272
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Hmm.. Updates! ;)

June 30th, 2005, 02:16 AM	#273
Adam Burtle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 173	Rai i just sent you an email using the forum's "email member" feature. Feel free to reply when you have a second, thanks.

July 15th, 2005, 03:33 PM	#274
Frank Schoerner New Boot Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 15	No update? No new clips? Whats going on?

July 18th, 2005, 11:50 PM	#276
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Expect more from them, I forget what has been mentioned here, but I imagine new models/upgrades, smaller cameras, and obviously with new models different price points. Haven't heard from Rai for months myself, so must be busy with something. The market is tough, price too high and people that can afford it start looking at upgrading their expectations to name brand equipment. Just a matter of finding the sweet spot where people wont go for higher or lower price equipment.

August 23rd, 2005, 11:53 PM	#278
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Drake, sounds vaguely familiar from the past? End of last year, I think, they showed a full working prototype in one unit (with detachable head for filming on mount) that seemed to have small computer audio sockets on the back. You probably saw an adaption of that or the unit the used to film Dragon feather last year. Haven't heard from Rai for a while. What sensor did it have, the old one or the new one? Some of these production engineering problems can be fiddly and delay it much, but this is a disappointment, maybe they are delaying for a new sensor or two.

August 24th, 2005, 02:13 AM	#279
Frank Schoerner New Boot Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 15	Two months ago, i saw the working DRAKE camera on a HD event in germany. But what i saw was not a small computer, it was the camera from their web page. I dont know why they show you not this camera. I saw also new 12Bit (not 8bit) uncompressed materials shot with this camera and it was ultas impressive. BTW: Last months. the german magazine computervideo showed DRAKE on their cover. http://www.computervideo.de/ausgaben/cv4_05-inhalt.htm A half year ago, the german magazin CUT had a cover story with the DRAKE team: http://www.cut.biz/heft.php?abo_id=1...l&show_id=1718

August 24th, 2005, 02:31 AM	#280
Wolfgang Neun New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 23	Levan, Thanks for sharing your experience! Same question: Which sensor have you experimented with? Still the IBIS5A? In coincidence only yesterday film-tv-video have published a report on the Drake camera at http://www.film-tv-video.de/newsdeta...49fab1f8d.html Unfortunately it's in German language only but downloadable as a pdf of 8 pages. You have to register first (for free of course). Here they say that "a fully developed and intensively tested Drake camera will be available from August 2005, the price of a complete system being about 15,000 Euro excl. VAT." There are some nice pictures accompanying the report. The design of the "final" Drake version looks "cool", IMHO.

August 24th, 2005, 03:38 AM	#281
Frank Schoerner New Boot Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 15	Thanks Wolfgang, i went to this side, registry and found this link to the PDF without registry need: http://www.film-tv-video.de/uploads/...0705_Drake.pdf

August 24th, 2005, 10:44 AM	#284
Keith Wakeham Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: St. John's, NL, Canada Posts: 416	I'm glad to see that they are getting some exposure and we already know that the camera is a working device. It's like anything, production takes time. Just look at kinetta, the camera was all over the place and has recently fell silent and nobody really knows whats going on with that either. They were delayed for altasens and now we know altasens is in full production and that camera still isn't out. Give them some time and drake will surely show up.