Rai & Markus' "Drake" HD camera

Wayne Morellini · March 31st, 2005, 08:31 AM

Yes, I like this design compared to the last version, looks more like a classic series in the making. Kinetta(??) should start being worried. I think this one looks more like a cinema camera, and the Kinetta like an odd camcorder.

I give it the Big Wink ;)

Markus Rupprecht · March 31st, 2005, 08:47 AM

@Ivan,
In general, viewfinder is no problem. Now, scince we solved the problem of displaying 720p full resolution on one viewing device and downscaled in a good quality on another viewing device both in realtime at the same time, there can be all sorts of combinations. It's just that we couldn't find a decent viewfinder >PAL resolution yet for a reasonable price.

@Wayne,
good to hear that you like the new design. All the questions and wishlists by the community were really helpful to improve the thing up to this point. The concept is still modular, the sensor head can still be detached (no more sweat, operating a steadycam) and we can now work with our experiences and the software on future sensors. So I guess, this is the first upgradable camera been build...

Cheers
Markus

Radek Svoboda · March 31st, 2005, 03:59 PM

Has it built in hard drive? How about 35 mm adapter? Will you build it with Altasens CMOS? How much will it cost?

Radek

Dan Diaconu · March 31st, 2005, 06:07 PM

Markus,
I have got a nice :) email from Rai. I replied but he is busy (like always). Contact me off list please since it will take forever for him to check his mailbox.

Wayne Morellini · April 1st, 2005, 01:48 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Markus Rupprecht :
(no more sweat, operating a steadycam) and we can now work with our experiences and the software on future sensors. So I guess, this is the first upgradable camera been build... -->>>

Yes, classic, it is good to have equipment you like keeping for life (like the old days).

Obin Olson · April 1st, 2005, 11:01 AM

Dan is that your 35mm adaptor on that system? could it be?

Gary McClurg · April 1st, 2005, 11:06 AM

Was wondering if you guys could make a mount to hold Arri 35 primes?

Dan Diaconu · April 1st, 2005, 03:17 PM

Obin,
Any 1 or 3 CCD/CMOS (of any size; 1/4", 1/3", 1/2" or 2/3" ) can record images of a GG (with the appropriate hi rez lens for the given CCD/CMOS size) thus enabling the prime's DOF be captured electronically. As long as chips will be smaller than 18/24 mm, what I have done has an application (for the purpose of shallow DOF) Whenever they will be fully "grown up" and mass produced, the GG and all this work will not be needed anymore. Is going to be a while though ...(I hope)

Gary,
Pl mounts are sold by many:
http://www.visualproducts.com
http://www.cinematechnic.com/products/PL_Mount_Adapt_ARRIBay.html
To many to list, just goggle for PL.

Now,... some are even matching my sense of humor:
http://www.visualproducts.com/storeProductDetail02.asp?productID=653&Cat=3&Cat2=42

I'll get two (for breakfast)

Wayne Morellini · April 1st, 2005, 10:21 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dan Diaconu
Now,... some are even matching my sense of humor:
http://www.visualproducts.com/storeProductDetail02.asp?productID=653&Cat=3&Cat2=42

I'll get two (for breakfast) -->>>

I hope that price is in Italian Lira ;)

Obin Olson · April 2nd, 2005, 02:28 AM

so dan is that your system on the camera or not?

Markus Rupprecht · April 5th, 2005, 07:57 AM

The camera currently doesn't utilize a GG unit. We find our collection of 2/3" lenses (really fast, most are f <1.0) very good. They are part of the system and define the "look" of the camera. The front part you see is the camera head, containing the sensor. It is detachable if you need it.

www.drachenfeder.com/int/drake6a.jpg
www.drachenfeder.com/int/drake6b.jpg

Richard Mellor · April 5th, 2005, 02:13 PM

That looks great, guys. It is so nice to see a modular design
with upgrade path for bigger better cmos chips.
The first clip made with the drake showed a shallow depth of field. I think you are right in not giving up resolution for a marginal increase in depth of field your 2/3 chip with ultra fast lens seems more than enough in creating this look. I would much rather save my money for the 1080p chip, solving the problem once and for all. These cameras also have some very green sensibilities. We won't have to landfill perfectly good cameras just to get the newest technology in chips, and we will be able to cut back on the manufacturing of tapes as storage gets smaller.

thank,s again your camera looks realy cool

Gary McClurg · April 5th, 2005, 02:32 PM

Once the magazine hits in April will you be able to post a copy or link to it.

Rai Orz · April 5th, 2005, 04:59 PM

... 3 days till the story come out (magazin CUT), yes, link will come...

Time for more details?

As Markus say, Drake need no 35mm adapter, because with those extreme fast lenses (f stop under 1) our 2/3" CMOS produced near 35mm DOF. This work, because our sensor have NO build in microlenses. Why dont use other camera manufactors those lenses? Why cant you find HDTV primes with those wide open iris? Why say people, those lenses are not sharp? Its because ALL other sensors, CCD´s or CMOS have build in microlenses (from Canon over Altasens to Varicam). But with microlenses and f stops under 1:1.4 the pictures washed out. Drake have no microlenses (also DALSA and ARRI), thats why it work. See also this DALSA PDF (Page 7):

http://www.dalsa.com/dc/documents/Im...8-00_03-70.pdf

Another point about Drake´s sensor: Fillfactory produced also the IBIS4 14000. It work in KODAKs DCS Pro 14n digital still reflex camera (its a full negative-size 35mm color imager with 14 megapixel resolution) This is one of the worlds top high end cameras. Internal IBIS4 and IBIS5 based on the same technologie.

Mono VIEWFINDER: Times are changed. Now, Drake got also(optional ?) a mono viewfinder.

BTW: I found a cheap way to build full resolution HDTV viewfinders. (full 720 and also full 1080, mono or color). Its crazy, but it work...

Obin Olson · April 5th, 2005, 06:43 PM

Rai PLEASE tell me how your building HDTV viewfinders!! I want to know! GREAT WORK!

March 31st, 2005, 08:47 AM	#197
Markus Rupprecht Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: germany Posts: 31	Viewfinder @Ivan, In general, viewfinder is no problem. Now, scince we solved the problem of displaying 720p full resolution on one viewing device and downscaled in a good quality on another viewing device both in realtime at the same time, there can be all sorts of combinations. It's just that we couldn't find a decent viewfinder >PAL resolution yet for a reasonable price. @Wayne, good to hear that you like the new design. All the questions and wishlists by the community were really helpful to improve the thing up to this point. The concept is still modular, the sensor head can still be detached (no more sweat, operating a steadycam) and we can now work with our experiences and the software on future sensors. So I guess, this is the first upgradable camera been build... Cheers Markus

April 5th, 2005, 02:13 PM	#207
Richard Mellor Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: cambridge ma Posts: 247	dof That looks great, guys. It is so nice to see a modular design with upgrade path for bigger better cmos chips. The first clip made with the drake showed a shallow depth of field. I think you are right in not giving up resolution for a marginal increase in depth of field your 2/3 chip with ultra fast lens seems more than enough in creating this look. I would much rather save my money for the 1080p chip, solving the problem once and for all. These cameras also have some very green sensibilities. We won't have to landfill perfectly good cameras just to get the newest technology in chips, and we will be able to cut back on the manufacturing of tapes as storage gets smaller. thank,s again your camera looks realy cool

March 31st, 2005, 08:31 AM	#196
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Yes, I like this design compared to the last version, looks more like a classic series in the making. Kinetta(??) should start being worried. I think this one looks more like a cinema camera, and the Kinetta like an odd camcorder. I give it the Big Wink ;)

March 31st, 2005, 03:59 PM	#198
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Has it built in hard drive? How about 35 mm adapter? Will you build it with Altasens CMOS? How much will it cost? Radek

March 31st, 2005, 06:07 PM	#199
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	Markus, I have got a nice :) email from Rai. I replied but he is busy (like always). Contact me off list please since it will take forever for him to check his mailbox.

April 1st, 2005, 01:48 AM	#200
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	<<<-- Originally posted by Markus Rupprecht : (no more sweat, operating a steadycam) and we can now work with our experiences and the software on future sensors. So I guess, this is the first upgradable camera been build... -->>> Yes, classic, it is good to have equipment you like keeping for life (like the old days).

April 1st, 2005, 11:01 AM	#201
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	Dan is that your 35mm adaptor on that system? could it be?

April 1st, 2005, 11:06 AM	#202
Gary McClurg Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Springfield, MO, USA Posts: 389	Was wondering if you guys could make a mount to hold Arri 35 primes?

April 1st, 2005, 03:17 PM	#203
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	Obin, Any 1 or 3 CCD/CMOS (of any size; 1/4", 1/3", 1/2" or 2/3" ) can record images of a GG (with the appropriate hi rez lens for the given CCD/CMOS size) thus enabling the prime's DOF be captured electronically. As long as chips will be smaller than 18/24 mm, what I have done has an application (for the purpose of shallow DOF) Whenever they will be fully "grown up" and mass produced, the GG and all this work will not be needed anymore. Is going to be a while though ...(I hope) Gary, Pl mounts are sold by many: http://www.visualproducts.com http://www.cinematechnic.com/products/PL_Mount_Adapt_ARRIBay.html To many to list, just goggle for PL. Now,... some are even matching my sense of humor: http://www.visualproducts.com/storeProductDetail02.asp?productID=653&Cat=3&Cat2=42 I'll get two (for breakfast)

April 1st, 2005, 10:21 PM	#204
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	<<<-- Originally posted by Dan Diaconu Now,... some are even matching my sense of humor: http://www.visualproducts.com/storeProductDetail02.asp?productID=653&Cat=3&Cat2=42 I'll get two (for breakfast) -->>> I hope that price is in Italian Lira ;)

April 2nd, 2005, 02:28 AM	#205
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	so dan is that your system on the camera or not?

April 5th, 2005, 07:57 AM	#206
Markus Rupprecht Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: germany Posts: 31	The camera currently doesn't utilize a GG unit. We find our collection of 2/3" lenses (really fast, most are f <1.0) very good. They are part of the system and define the "look" of the camera. The front part you see is the camera head, containing the sensor. It is detachable if you need it. www.drachenfeder.com/int/drake6a.jpg www.drachenfeder.com/int/drake6b.jpg

April 5th, 2005, 02:32 PM	#208
Gary McClurg Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Springfield, MO, USA Posts: 389	Once the magazine hits in April will you be able to post a copy or link to it.

April 5th, 2005, 04:59 PM	#209
Rai Orz Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 136	... 3 days till the story come out (magazin CUT), yes, link will come... Time for more details? As Markus say, Drake need no 35mm adapter, because with those extreme fast lenses (f stop under 1) our 2/3" CMOS produced near 35mm DOF. This work, because our sensor have NO build in microlenses. Why dont use other camera manufactors those lenses? Why cant you find HDTV primes with those wide open iris? Why say people, those lenses are not sharp? Its because ALL other sensors, CCD´s or CMOS have build in microlenses (from Canon over Altasens to Varicam). But with microlenses and f stops under 1:1.4 the pictures washed out. Drake have no microlenses (also DALSA and ARRI), thats why it work. See also this DALSA PDF (Page 7): http://www.dalsa.com/dc/documents/Im...8-00_03-70.pdf Another point about Drake´s sensor: Fillfactory produced also the IBIS4 14000. It work in KODAKs DCS Pro 14n digital still reflex camera (its a full negative-size 35mm color imager with 14 megapixel resolution) This is one of the worlds top high end cameras. Internal IBIS4 and IBIS5 based on the same technologie. Mono VIEWFINDER: Times are changed. Now, Drake got also(optional ?) a mono viewfinder. BTW: I found a cheap way to build full resolution HDTV viewfinders. (full 720 and also full 1080, mono or color). Its crazy, but it work...

April 5th, 2005, 06:43 PM	#210
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	Rai PLEASE tell me how your building HDTV viewfinders!! I want to know! GREAT WORK!