Adapter Roundup

Jim Lafferty · October 24th, 2004, 12:13 PM

Hey,

In an email exchange wth another member from this board, he suggested a standardized test for adapter comparisons:

Place a Coke can with a newspaper as the background, the can four feet from the camera, with the paper one foot behind it. Do a five-second pan and focus-pull across these elements.

Keeping something like this full-res wouldn't be too costly in terms of space, and the conditions required should be readily available to everyone who posts and who has an adapter completed.

I'm offering server space to host the files -- they're likely going to be about 15-20mb. I'd suggest, in the mindset of minimizing file size -- final output should have no sound, and I'll recompress them using the HuffYUV lossless codec.

Send the following elements, or provide links to them online, and I'll begin work to consolidate them:

1) The video file -- without sound, compressed with HuffYUV if you can
2) Adapter and camera specs -- how'd you get/make your GG, is it static or a spinner, what lenses/achromats are you using with it, what other materials have gone into the design, and what camera is it attached to, total cost, time to make, weight, etc.
3) General observance of lighting conditions for the video, and camera settings -- natural light or not, time of day, f-stop, shutter speed, gain (if any).
4) Pictures and/or diagrams of you adapter -- keep it to five, and mix it up between exterior and interior details if possible
5) Misc other links -- if you've got a tutorial posted somewhere, or if you're offering your adapter for sale, can people contact you with questions and if so, what's your email, etc.

I'm planning on doing an extensive overhaul of my old tutorial, which contains some innacuracies (it is for the moment here), and I was hoping to have a page that would show off the successful designs and consolidate different ideas/implementations for different cams and shooting mindsets.

I hope to get a wide range of cameras and adapter styles -- if it's a situation where I get some that seem like duplicates (same camera, same style of GG, etc.), I'll pick the best among them and go from there.

I'm also planning on doing a credit page at the back of the tutorial, thanking the many here who have offered ideas and advice along the way (e.g. Brett, James Webb, Les, and of course, the two big names -- Agus and Alain -- as well as others...)

Respond here if you're interested, or email me: jim@ideaspora.net

I've got about 15 gigs of space to spare and a LOT of monthly bandwidth on a very fast pipe (I typically get 120k down, 85k up).

- jim

Aaron Shaw · October 24th, 2004, 01:25 PM

Jim this is an absolutely superb idea. I have been wanting to compare all the various adapter styles but have found it hard as there are ideas spread out through so many posts! I don't have any footage at the moment to submit but I should have some once I get my hands on the GG piece I ordered.

Brett Erskine · October 24th, 2004, 03:02 PM

I second that. I'll post when my latest version is ready to shoot tests again.

Everybody make sure your shooting at the same f/stops and lighting to the same light level. That way we can also see the brightness ability of these adapters as well.

Jim Lafferty · October 25th, 2004, 07:51 AM

Great -- let's extend the time to ten seconds -- be sure to include both a pan and a rack. Make edits if you have to, but whatever you do, don't compress the video.

I'll have mine up in a week to ten days (working with microwax now...)

- jim

Bob Hart · October 25th, 2004, 08:09 AM

Jim.

If I send you a test, it will have to be via the snail and probably be via PAL DVCAM or MiniDV tape, or Microsoft .avi file. Line speed ex here is as sick as 752 bytes per second.

Les DIT has a copy of an article I commenced but did not complete. If he is feeling generous or has the means, he might be able to send it on to you electronically. It is however only a draft as the construction drawings for my non-erecting version are yet incomplete in relation to the latest version.

I have also used the EIA 1956 TV test chart on some of my tests. If you do a websearch it can be downloaded in several different sized versions. Getting it to print right is a bit of a challenge, however on glossy inkjet paper it comes up just fine with perserverence.

I suggest also a manual white balance and lock-off before the tests. Both my disk versions, CD-R spacer and optical glass, skew the colour a little on the grey-brown side. Groundglassed CD-R data disks skew the colour to green.

Jim Lafferty · October 25th, 2004, 09:33 AM

Bob,

Thanks for the comments/insights.

You can send along an AVI in whatever format -- I would just need it on CDR/DVDR, not tape.

Good thoughts on white balancing and test charts -- I recommend everyone do a few tests and submit the best from among them.

edit: Beale's site has the patterns here.

- jim

Les Dit · October 31st, 2004, 01:28 AM

Jim,
Great idea, it's good to have someone else saying that stills are not enough!
The HUF codec may not be practical with larger than webcam frame sized videos. I would think that a 10 megabit media9 video would work for HD, etc. My previous postings of video were about 8 megabit/sec.
-Les

Les Dit · October 31st, 2004, 01:30 AM

Bob, I have to see if I can find the CD. I did some moving, and I don't know where it is. Do you remember what the label on the disk might say ?
-Les

<<<-- Originally posted by Bob Hart : Jim.

If I send you a test, it will have to be via the snail and probably be via PAL DVCAM or MiniDV tape, or Microsoft .avi file. Line speed ex here is as sick as 752 bytes per second.

Les DIT has a copy of an article I commenced but did not complete. If he is feeling generous or has the means, he might be able to send it on to you electronically. It is however only a draft as the construction drawings for my non-erecting version are yet incomplete in relation to the latest version.

-->>>

Bob Hart · October 31st, 2004, 06:18 AM

I think it was "Making the Agus35 APVNE" a .pdf file of a html, Agus35 Demo?? and music video "My Time Again." Those two were .avi files. No probs if you cant find it. I know exactly what moving entails.

October 24th, 2004, 12:13 PM	#1
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Adapter Roundup - Critical Comparisons Hey, In an email exchange wth another member from this board, he suggested a standardized test for adapter comparisons: Place a Coke can with a newspaper as the background, the can four feet from the camera, with the paper one foot behind it. Do a five-second pan and focus-pull across these elements. Keeping something like this full-res wouldn't be too costly in terms of space, and the conditions required should be readily available to everyone who posts and who has an adapter completed. I'm offering server space to host the files -- they're likely going to be about 15-20mb. I'd suggest, in the mindset of minimizing file size -- final output should have no sound, and I'll recompress them using the HuffYUV lossless codec. Send the following elements, or provide links to them online, and I'll begin work to consolidate them: 1) The video file -- without sound, compressed with HuffYUV if you can 2) Adapter and camera specs -- how'd you get/make your GG, is it static or a spinner, what lenses/achromats are you using with it, what other materials have gone into the design, and what camera is it attached to, total cost, time to make, weight, etc. 3) General observance of lighting conditions for the video, and camera settings -- natural light or not, time of day, f-stop, shutter speed, gain (if any). 4) Pictures and/or diagrams of you adapter -- keep it to five, and mix it up between exterior and interior details if possible 5) Misc other links -- if you've got a tutorial posted somewhere, or if you're offering your adapter for sale, can people contact you with questions and if so, what's your email, etc. I'm planning on doing an extensive overhaul of my old tutorial, which contains some innacuracies (it is for the moment here), and I was hoping to have a page that would show off the successful designs and consolidate different ideas/implementations for different cams and shooting mindsets. I hope to get a wide range of cameras and adapter styles -- if it's a situation where I get some that seem like duplicates (same camera, same style of GG, etc.), I'll pick the best among them and go from there. I'm also planning on doing a credit page at the back of the tutorial, thanking the many here who have offered ideas and advice along the way (e.g. Brett, James Webb, Les, and of course, the two big names -- Agus and Alain -- as well as others...) Respond here if you're interested, or email me: jim@ideaspora.net I've got about 15 gigs of space to spare and a LOT of monthly bandwidth on a very fast pipe (I typically get 120k down, 85k up). - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

October 25th, 2004, 07:51 AM	#4
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Great -- let's extend the time to ten seconds -- be sure to include both a pan and a rack. Make edits if you have to, but whatever you do, don't compress the video. I'll have mine up in a week to ten days (working with microwax now...) - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

October 25th, 2004, 09:33 AM	#6
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Bob, Thanks for the comments/insights. You can send along an AVI in whatever format -- I would just need it on CDR/DVDR, not tape. Good thoughts on white balancing and test charts -- I recommend everyone do a few tests and submit the best from among them. edit: Beale's site has the patterns here. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

October 24th, 2004, 01:25 PM	#2
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Jim this is an absolutely superb idea. I have been wanting to compare all the various adapter styles but have found it hard as there are ideas spread out through so many posts! I don't have any footage at the moment to submit but I should have some once I get my hands on the GG piece I ordered.

October 24th, 2004, 03:02 PM	#3
Brett Erskine Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 445	I second that. I'll post when my latest version is ready to shoot tests again. Everybody make sure your shooting at the same f/stops and lighting to the same light level. That way we can also see the brightness ability of these adapters as well.

October 25th, 2004, 08:09 AM	#5
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Jim. If I send you a test, it will have to be via the snail and probably be via PAL DVCAM or MiniDV tape, or Microsoft .avi file. Line speed ex here is as sick as 752 bytes per second. Les DIT has a copy of an article I commenced but did not complete. If he is feeling generous or has the means, he might be able to send it on to you electronically. It is however only a draft as the construction drawings for my non-erecting version are yet incomplete in relation to the latest version. I have also used the EIA 1956 TV test chart on some of my tests. If you do a websearch it can be downloaded in several different sized versions. Getting it to print right is a bit of a challenge, however on glossy inkjet paper it comes up just fine with perserverence. I suggest also a manual white balance and lock-off before the tests. Both my disk versions, CD-R spacer and optical glass, skew the colour a little on the grey-brown side. Groundglassed CD-R data disks skew the colour to green.

October 31st, 2004, 01:28 AM	#7
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Jim, Great idea, it's good to have someone else saying that stills are not enough! The HUF codec may not be practical with larger than webcam frame sized videos. I would think that a 10 megabit media9 video would work for HD, etc. My previous postings of video were about 8 megabit/sec. -Les

October 31st, 2004, 01:30 AM	#8
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Bob, I have to see if I can find the CD. I did some moving, and I don't know where it is. Do you remember what the label on the disk might say ? -Les <<<-- Originally posted by Bob Hart : Jim. If I send you a test, it will have to be via the snail and probably be via PAL DVCAM or MiniDV tape, or Microsoft .avi file. Line speed ex here is as sick as 752 bytes per second. Les DIT has a copy of an article I commenced but did not complete. If he is feeling generous or has the means, he might be able to send it on to you electronically. It is however only a draft as the construction drawings for my non-erecting version are yet incomplete in relation to the latest version. -->>>

October 31st, 2004, 06:18 AM	#9
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	I think it was "Making the Agus35 APVNE" a .pdf file of a html, Agus35 Demo?? and music video "My Time Again." Those two were .avi files. No probs if you cant find it. I know exactly what moving entails.