Consolidated XL1 35mm Adapter Thread

Keith Kline · August 17th, 2004, 10:02 PM

Anders, I am also trying to figure out a relay lens for my camera. So far it seems like the easiest way it's been done was with a 35mm still lens and an adapter, but there has to be a better way. If anyone has any ideas of what type of glass we might need to accomplish this please give us some advice. I know I sure could use some. Is there a better/cheaper way to do this other than using an adapter and 35mm still lens?

Anders Floe · September 1st, 2004, 07:18 AM

To : Christoph Hopf

I found this on the net:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/product/46335/SC2595X/REG/3662

Is that what you are referring to?

Shouldn't we just keep the xl-1 relaylens discussion in this thread instead of having to keep up with two identical threads?

Christoph Hopf · September 5th, 2004, 06:02 AM

sorry folks,

somehow i didn`t noticed that there is a allready a existing thread about this subject.
i am quite sure that p&s technik use this schneider xenonlense for the relay lense.

now i am thinking about to order only the relay lense from p&s Technik. maybe it`s possible??

Anders Floe · September 5th, 2004, 10:31 AM

That would really be awesome! I think the list price is about 1500 euro or something for the whole connection kit. I wonder would the lens alone would cost?

I don't think that you should mention what you want to use it for! The only way they would sell the lens alone would be if you already had bought the adaptor but you had broken the lens!??

Give it a try (tell them you have broken 2 ;-)

Christoph Hopf · September 6th, 2004, 11:00 AM

my aunt lives in munich, and works for arri. maybe she know one of the p&s guys. i will call her. next week i should know if i can buy the relay lense alone

Anders Floe · September 6th, 2004, 11:37 AM

That sounds really nice! I have been considering buying one from the start but haven't because of the price. So if it's possible for you to buy it seperately I really want to buy one as well.

Dietmar Zonewicz · September 12th, 2004, 02:12 AM

you needn't call her it is possible.

Part No. 18770 Mini35Digital connecting kit for Canon XL1 / XL1s, incl. Intermediate lens, plate for fixing the video camera, adapter for Canon battery , ergonomic holder for color finder.
Price: 1530,00 EUR

source: www.pstechnik.de

Dino Reyes · September 12th, 2004, 11:04 PM

maybe this will help some people who are making their own lenses

http://www.dinoreyes.com/images/lensadapter.html

cheers!

Anders Floe · September 21st, 2004, 06:10 AM

To Christoph Hopf: Have you talked to your aunt?

To Dietmar Zonewicz: I'm interested in buying the lens and only the lens(not the rods etc.). I think 1500 is pretty expensive!

Does anybody know if that xenon lens:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/product/46335/SC2595X/REG/3662

would work with the xl-1 and homebuilt adaptor??????

Thanks

Anders Floe · September 23rd, 2004, 03:55 PM

I phoned PStecnik and it seems that the relay lens alone will cost 1000 euro. Pretty much!

If I bought that lens - could I just mount a GG and a lens - and then start shooting? or would I still need to get an achromatic adaptor and stuff???

Thanks!

Joshua Starnes · September 23rd, 2004, 05:45 PM

I phoned PStecnik and it seems that the relay lens alone will cost 1000 euro. Pretty much!

If I bought that lens - could I just mount a GG and a lens - and then start shooting? or would I still need to get an achromatic adaptor and stuff???

You're going to need an achromatic adaptor, or some other method of getting the relay lens to focus onto the GG without vignetting the image.

Stephen Birdsong · October 3rd, 2004, 08:29 PM

Its a shame that little progress has been shown on building an adapter for an xl1. I have tinkered around since june of this year, with little success. My lack of success is mostly because of not knowing where to start, as following what others have done with other cameras isnt exactly applicable.

I have made some progress tho.
Started out with a shoebox, discovered that I could get an image on my makeshift gg.
Moved up to pvc pipe as my second prototype. Works well for fidgetting around. I have a 50mm as my primary lens, Im using holywood frost sandwhiched between 2 uv filters as my makeshift gg. What I'm trying to figure out at this point is:
1. What focal length lense I need as my relay lense (im limited since I dont own anything wider than a 50mm)
2. What is the best method to produce a quality gg (can I buy one? or do I have to make one, and if so, how?)
3. what elements do I need between the relay lens and gg? There is so much conflicting info out there I dont know what to believe. Also, I dont know where to get these things.
3. What is the best permanent housing for my setup?

On another note, if I ended up wanting to make a setup that had an oscilating gg, what materials do I need etc.

My suggestion to anyone trying to discover what they need to make things work is this:
1. drill a hole in a 2x4 you can mount your camera to to keep it stationary
2. create "stands" for your relay lens and your gg and primary lens housing that you can easily slide back and forth and mount your relay to the 2x4 whenever you find your correct flange depth (of course i have found that it will change based on how far away your gg is, so try to make it adjustable).

youll notice very quickly that trying to hold your relay lense with one hand, and your primary lens housing in another, keeping them in line with each other AND your ccd is difficult and ultimately FRUSTRATING.
Finding flange depth in my experience isnt an exact science. What I've found easiest is to focus on infinity and place your lense wherever you get sharp focus on distant objects, trying to place the lense at what the measurements you got online say ends up not working the way you would hope it would.

My next step is to obtain a quality GG, as Im pretty sure I can get the gg image with a 20mm lens (which i may be able to borrow from a friend to test)

Dino Reyes seemed to have a functioning adapter, but he seems to have disappeared.

Lets get this figured out so that we can all have working 35mm adapters and continue to improve them with each others input.

My setup produces a pretty poor image (my gg is crap), but perhaps next weekend I can capture something and try to get it uploaded somewhere to view. (if anyone knows how to get files hosted on dvinfo.net, let me know)

Stephen

Kevin Burnfield · October 6th, 2004, 07:10 AM

I just finished a gig where they rented a Mini-35 for 5 days to use with my XL1S and I have to say the combo between it and the 35mm lenses has made me want one more then ever!! ---- but the XL1S progress on an alternate to the P&S one seems to be at a stand-still.

I don't mind the idea of a spinning or vibrating ground glass, don't mind if it has to have a relay lens---- but I can't help but think that if all of us XL1 (and 2) users got together on this we could figure out some group purchase or at least spur each other into moving forward on this (or at least those of us with little mechanical skills could find someway of supporting the cause) and get this moving ahead.

The footage out of an XL1S using 35mm lenses and a mini-35-like device is INCREDIBLE. My DP sat there watching dailies saying over and over again "man, I thought we could get it to look like film before--- you can't tell this isn't film...."

What can we do? How can we help each other? I know there are some people that have had machinists make adapters for other lenses to fit an XL camera, if we bought a bunch together can we get a great (cheap) price?

Roger Moore · October 6th, 2004, 10:21 AM

Keith Kline, I've been reading all of these XL1 threads too, trying to understand what's to be done - and I agree it's kinda hit a dead end, hard. As I'm not mechanically skilled most of my imaginings have to do with "inventive" ways of using the parts that I have available. Not even owning a camera makes my ideas even more dubious. I don't have the stuff infront of me to tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree, such as when I thought of using the 3X canon lens as the relay lens.

The 3X lens has the minimum focus (something like .5 cm at widest zoom) and the fov (maybe even too wide) to capture an image projected on a ground glass....maybe not. I don't know, but I haven't heard of anyone who has tried making an Agus35 for the 3X lens/XL1.

Joshua Starnes · October 6th, 2004, 10:53 AM

If you're willing to pay for it, I don't think it would be that hard to machine an XL-1 mount adaptor with a macro (or achromatic diopter, or whatever you want to use) in it.

Have a another mount machined on the other end and then attach some sort of Agus35 device at the right distance from the macro.

Wouldn't that work? The X factor is the correct distance of the macro from the sensor, and the ground glass from the macro.

September 12th, 2004, 11:04 PM	#113
Dino Reyes Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: brooklyn Posts: 66	canon xl adapter page maybe this will help some people who are making their own lenses http://www.dinoreyes.com/images/lensadapter.html cheers!

August 17th, 2004, 10:02 PM	#106
Keith Kline Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 153	Anders, I am also trying to figure out a relay lens for my camera. So far it seems like the easiest way it's been done was with a 35mm still lens and an adapter, but there has to be a better way. If anyone has any ideas of what type of glass we might need to accomplish this please give us some advice. I know I sure could use some. Is there a better/cheaper way to do this other than using an adapter and 35mm still lens?

September 1st, 2004, 07:18 AM	#107
Anders Floe Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 91	To : Christoph Hopf I found this on the net: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/product/46335/SC2595X/REG/3662 Is that what you are referring to? Shouldn't we just keep the xl-1 relaylens discussion in this thread instead of having to keep up with two identical threads?

September 5th, 2004, 06:02 AM	#108
Christoph Hopf New Boot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Vienna, AUSRTIA Posts: 6	sorry folks, somehow i didn`t noticed that there is a allready a existing thread about this subject. i am quite sure that p&s technik use this schneider xenonlense for the relay lense. now i am thinking about to order only the relay lense from p&s Technik. maybe it`s possible??

September 5th, 2004, 10:31 AM	#109
Anders Floe Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 91	That would really be awesome! I think the list price is about 1500 euro or something for the whole connection kit. I wonder would the lens alone would cost? I don't think that you should mention what you want to use it for! The only way they would sell the lens alone would be if you already had bought the adaptor but you had broken the lens!?? Give it a try (tell them you have broken 2 ;-)

September 6th, 2004, 11:00 AM	#110
Christoph Hopf New Boot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Vienna, AUSRTIA Posts: 6	my aunt lives in munich, and works for arri. maybe she know one of the p&s guys. i will call her. next week i should know if i can buy the relay lense alone

September 6th, 2004, 11:37 AM	#111
Anders Floe Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 91	That sounds really nice! I have been considering buying one from the start but haven't because of the price. So if it's possible for you to buy it seperately I really want to buy one as well.

September 12th, 2004, 02:12 AM	#112
Dietmar Zonewicz Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Esslingen & Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 47	you needn't call her it is possible. Part No. 18770 Mini35Digital connecting kit for Canon XL1 / XL1s, incl. Intermediate lens, plate for fixing the video camera, adapter for Canon battery , ergonomic holder for color finder. Price: 1530,00 EUR source: www.pstechnik.de

September 21st, 2004, 06:10 AM	#114
Anders Floe Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 91	To Christoph Hopf: Have you talked to your aunt? To Dietmar Zonewicz: I'm interested in buying the lens and only the lens(not the rods etc.). I think 1500 is pretty expensive! Does anybody know if that xenon lens: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/product/46335/SC2595X/REG/3662 would work with the xl-1 and homebuilt adaptor?????? Thanks

September 23rd, 2004, 03:55 PM	#115
Anders Floe Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 91	I phoned PStecnik and it seems that the relay lens alone will cost 1000 euro. Pretty much! If I bought that lens - could I just mount a GG and a lens - and then start shooting? or would I still need to get an achromatic adaptor and stuff??? Thanks!

September 23rd, 2004, 05:45 PM	#116
Joshua Starnes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 356	I phoned PStecnik and it seems that the relay lens alone will cost 1000 euro. Pretty much! If I bought that lens - could I just mount a GG and a lens - and then start shooting? or would I still need to get an achromatic adaptor and stuff??? You're going to need an achromatic adaptor, or some other method of getting the relay lens to focus onto the GG without vignetting the image.

October 3rd, 2004, 08:29 PM	#117
Stephen Birdsong Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 125	Its a shame that little progress has been shown on building an adapter for an xl1. I have tinkered around since june of this year, with little success. My lack of success is mostly because of not knowing where to start, as following what others have done with other cameras isnt exactly applicable. I have made some progress tho. Started out with a shoebox, discovered that I could get an image on my makeshift gg. Moved up to pvc pipe as my second prototype. Works well for fidgetting around. I have a 50mm as my primary lens, Im using holywood frost sandwhiched between 2 uv filters as my makeshift gg. What I'm trying to figure out at this point is: 1. What focal length lense I need as my relay lense (im limited since I dont own anything wider than a 50mm) 2. What is the best method to produce a quality gg (can I buy one? or do I have to make one, and if so, how?) 3. what elements do I need between the relay lens and gg? There is so much conflicting info out there I dont know what to believe. Also, I dont know where to get these things. 3. What is the best permanent housing for my setup? On another note, if I ended up wanting to make a setup that had an oscilating gg, what materials do I need etc. My suggestion to anyone trying to discover what they need to make things work is this: 1. drill a hole in a 2x4 you can mount your camera to to keep it stationary 2. create "stands" for your relay lens and your gg and primary lens housing that you can easily slide back and forth and mount your relay to the 2x4 whenever you find your correct flange depth (of course i have found that it will change based on how far away your gg is, so try to make it adjustable). youll notice very quickly that trying to hold your relay lense with one hand, and your primary lens housing in another, keeping them in line with each other AND your ccd is difficult and ultimately FRUSTRATING. Finding flange depth in my experience isnt an exact science. What I've found easiest is to focus on infinity and place your lense wherever you get sharp focus on distant objects, trying to place the lense at what the measurements you got online say ends up not working the way you would hope it would. My next step is to obtain a quality GG, as Im pretty sure I can get the gg image with a 20mm lens (which i may be able to borrow from a friend to test) Dino Reyes seemed to have a functioning adapter, but he seems to have disappeared. Lets get this figured out so that we can all have working 35mm adapters and continue to improve them with each others input. My setup produces a pretty poor image (my gg is crap), but perhaps next weekend I can capture something and try to get it uploaded somewhere to view. (if anyone knows how to get files hosted on dvinfo.net, let me know) Stephen

October 6th, 2004, 07:10 AM	#118
Kevin Burnfield Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 363	I just finished a gig where they rented a Mini-35 for 5 days to use with my XL1S and I have to say the combo between it and the 35mm lenses has made me want one more then ever!! ---- but the XL1S progress on an alternate to the P&S one seems to be at a stand-still. I don't mind the idea of a spinning or vibrating ground glass, don't mind if it has to have a relay lens---- but I can't help but think that if all of us XL1 (and 2) users got together on this we could figure out some group purchase or at least spur each other into moving forward on this (or at least those of us with little mechanical skills could find someway of supporting the cause) and get this moving ahead. The footage out of an XL1S using 35mm lenses and a mini-35-like device is INCREDIBLE. My DP sat there watching dailies saying over and over again "man, I thought we could get it to look like film before--- you can't tell this isn't film...." What can we do? How can we help each other? I know there are some people that have had machinists make adapters for other lenses to fit an XL camera, if we bought a bunch together can we get a great (cheap) price?

October 6th, 2004, 10:21 AM	#119
Roger Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: toronto Posts: 99	Keith Kline, I've been reading all of these XL1 threads too, trying to understand what's to be done - and I agree it's kinda hit a dead end, hard. As I'm not mechanically skilled most of my imaginings have to do with "inventive" ways of using the parts that I have available. Not even owning a camera makes my ideas even more dubious. I don't have the stuff infront of me to tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree, such as when I thought of using the 3X canon lens as the relay lens. The 3X lens has the minimum focus (something like .5 cm at widest zoom) and the fov (maybe even too wide) to capture an image projected on a ground glass....maybe not. I don't know, but I haven't heard of anyone who has tried making an Agus35 for the 3X lens/XL1.

October 6th, 2004, 10:53 AM	#120
Joshua Starnes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 356	If you're willing to pay for it, I don't think it would be that hard to machine an XL-1 mount adaptor with a macro (or achromatic diopter, or whatever you want to use) in it. Have a another mount machined on the other end and then attach some sort of Agus35 device at the right distance from the macro. Wouldn't that work? The X factor is the correct distance of the macro from the sensor, and the ground glass from the macro.