Consolidated XL1 35mm Adapter Thread

Kevin Burnfield · May 22nd, 2004, 01:54 PM

I know that Dino was working on some stuff and had a successful model he had put together (although the price point was high) but I haven't heard anything from anyone else on an XL1 solution.

I don't have the head for this kind of work, give me part numbers and instructions and I can build something but the engineer types here amaze me doing it all from scratch

Valeriu Campan · May 28th, 2004, 10:19 PM

Have you considered to attach a C mount macro lens for 16mm format in to a modified camera body cap? Just calculate the flange required.

Nick Hiltgen · June 1st, 2004, 10:15 AM

what type fo mount would you want on the xl1? if you were building an xl1 solution? PL mount? EF? C?...?

Kevin Burnfield · June 1st, 2004, 06:36 PM

Dino was getting really far with his designs and stuff but I haven't seen him around for a while.

I, for one, would love an XL1 option for the Aldu or the Agus35.

unfortunately I don't have the time or the engineer's mind for figuring it all out.

Anders Floe · June 2nd, 2004, 06:36 AM

Could this work as a relay lens : Dallmeyer F1.5 15mm wide angle ‘C’ mount lens? Like Adam Bowman wrote earlier in this post "the mini35 relay lens is probably around 15mm <f2.0"! Or am I mistaken?

Thanks

Valeriu Campan · June 2nd, 2004, 06:51 AM

I have posted in an an another thread this suggestion:
A macro lens, C mount for 16mm cameras. I think EdmundOptics have something in the relay lens section. The mount can be built in a camera body cap getting the right flange distance. A 16mm camera lens covers a bit more than 2/3" diagonal, so for the XL1 that has a 1/3 chip, will use only the central part - a very sweet spot.

Patrick Falls · June 3rd, 2004, 10:39 AM

hey nick and valeriu, i know nothing about c mounts or any other type of mounts. i'm really new to this, i have had my camera for maybe 4 months, and i haven't been putting it to work lately.

Valeriu Campan · June 3rd, 2004, 05:37 PM

Patrick,
C mouunts were mainly used in 16mm film cameras like Bolex and Beaulieu. Now, you can find them mainly on industrial/machine vision/security cameras. They are quite small lenses, some of them of very high quality. The 16mm format is a bit larger than the current pro 2/3 video. The XL1 has a 1/3 chip. Have a look on eBay or local second hand photo shops that sell also movie camera stuff. I think that these lenses would be a better option than a 35mm stills camera lens, as they are designed to cover a smaller area (different circle of confusion...) and their characteristics are more suitable for this project.

Stephen Birdsong · June 4th, 2004, 04:20 AM

There is such a vast amount of information out there on building some sort of home built mini35 system. I've read much of Agus and Aldu's posts, but they do not address the concerns for an xl1s. Im an owner of an xl1s with a 14x manual lense. I cannot focus on anything closer than 4 feet, and with anything but the widest setting, even farther. I understand the concept of the static ground glass setup, but I have no idea how I can acheive focus on the flange depth of a 35mm lens with my lense. Additionally, I've heard so many tings about fresnels, acromatic diopters etc... Are these all really necessary? What have other Xl1s users found? What sort of lense do I need to be able to focus with a longer focal length at less than 6 inches? its so hard to sift through all the posts out there on this topic, especially when much of the information does not apply to the xl1s. Would anyone be so kind as to give it to me in a condensed form? Im ready to put down the money for the materials to start expirementing, but Im not sure where to start.

Thanks,
Stephen

Charles Papert · June 4th, 2004, 03:51 PM

Stephen, not that this is necessarily the info you are looking for, but the 14x manual does have a macro feature, enabling close focus down to the front element.

Stephen Birdsong · June 4th, 2004, 06:23 PM

Im familar with the macro setting, but, it is at widest setting, and you will see the entire ground glass rather than the projected image full frame.

Perhaps with some sort of telephoto in front of the lens, with the macro setting on it would be possible. I wouldnt know where to start without simply expirementing with different lenses, which I dont exactly have the opportunity to do.

Stephen

Charles Papert · June 4th, 2004, 07:18 PM

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

Valeriu Campan · June 4th, 2004, 08:59 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Stephen Birdsong : I wouldnt know where to start without simply expirementing with different lenses, which I dont exactly have the opportunity to do.

Stephen -->>>

You can adapt a cMount adaptor in to the camera body cap and attach a small macro lens for 16mm.
or get an adaptor for a 35mm Nikon macro lens from:
http://www.lesbosher.co.uk/XL1.asp
or
http://www.zgc.com/zgc.nsf/active/200471117190AB9E85256B81000CB326.
You will get a lot of distortion and unpleasant focusing problems with various diopters and third party attachments.
Even an enlarging lens with a M39 thread will give a better result than the myriad of attachments suggested. Also the size of a rig of your XL1 with standard lens and adaptors will put a Panavision camera to shame.

Stephen Birdsong · June 4th, 2004, 10:46 PM

Ok, I've started on my first prototype, and wanted to post on it.

I found that Hollywood Frost works great as a substitute for ground glass. If your not familiar with it, hollywood frost, also known as opal, is a gel used in production.

What I did was take a somewhat sturdy box resembling a shoebox (it held a iron at one point).
I cut it in half, and rigged it so that one end went into the other so I essentally had a box that I could shorten or lengthen.

I then measured my flange distance (im using an olympus OMG 50mm lense) and placed a large cut-out of hollywood frost at the flange depth.

When I pointed the box at an object, I got a very crisp image projected onto the hollywood frost.

Now, I took my camera, and inserted the lens into the other end of my box, and drew focus. Obviously, Im not going to have a full frame at this point, because Im required to use the macro setting which is equivilant to a 35mm focal length (i think).

So, my problems are this: Im getting a serious hot spot, with major vignetting, and I need to be able to fill the frame with the image.

Im not sure if I understand the difference between a close up filter and a tele.

I do know that I need to be able to focus at less than 3 inches (which I can already do), and I need to be able to zoom to something like 600mm.

Any ideas?

Stephen
Ill try to post pictures of what Im talking about soon.

Anders Floe · June 8th, 2004, 08:59 AM

To: Valeriu Campan

I might have misunderstood your post but:

Are you suggesting that you could build a relay lens (like the one the mini35 uses) out of a lens-mount and a macro lens?

I'm danish and I'm having difficulties interpreting what exactly a camerabody cap is? Do you mean the plastic dustprotector you can put directly in front of the ccd chip - where you would normally mount the lens??

I think I'm getting more and more confused every day on how to get started on my adaptor!

Thanks

June 3rd, 2004, 10:39 AM	#37
Patrick Falls Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Augusta georgia 15min. from Aiken S.Carolina and 2 hours from Atlanta Posts: 105	still patiently waiting hey nick and valeriu, i know nothing about c mounts or any other type of mounts. i'm really new to this, i have had my camera for maybe 4 months, and i haven't been putting it to work lately.

June 4th, 2004, 03:51 PM	#40
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Stephen, not that this is necessarily the info you are looking for, but the 14x manual does have a macro feature, enabling close focus down to the front element. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

June 4th, 2004, 07:18 PM	#42
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

May 22nd, 2004, 01:54 PM	#31
Kevin Burnfield Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 363	I know that Dino was working on some stuff and had a successful model he had put together (although the price point was high) but I haven't heard anything from anyone else on an XL1 solution. I don't have the head for this kind of work, give me part numbers and instructions and I can build something but the engineer types here amaze me doing it all from scratch

May 28th, 2004, 10:19 PM	#32
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	Have you considered to attach a C mount macro lens for 16mm format in to a modified camera body cap? Just calculate the flange required.

June 1st, 2004, 10:15 AM	#33
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	what type fo mount would you want on the xl1? if you were building an xl1 solution? PL mount? EF? C?...?

June 1st, 2004, 06:36 PM	#34
Kevin Burnfield Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 363	Dino was getting really far with his designs and stuff but I haven't seen him around for a while. I, for one, would love an XL1 option for the Aldu or the Agus35. unfortunately I don't have the time or the engineer's mind for figuring it all out.

June 2nd, 2004, 06:36 AM	#35
Anders Floe Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 91	Could this work as a relay lens : Dallmeyer F1.5 15mm wide angle ‘C’ mount lens? Like Adam Bowman wrote earlier in this post "the mini35 relay lens is probably around 15mm <f2.0"! Or am I mistaken? Thanks

June 2nd, 2004, 06:51 AM	#36
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	I have posted in an an another thread this suggestion: A macro lens, C mount for 16mm cameras. I think EdmundOptics have something in the relay lens section. The mount can be built in a camera body cap getting the right flange distance. A 16mm camera lens covers a bit more than 2/3" diagonal, so for the XL1 that has a 1/3 chip, will use only the central part - a very sweet spot.

June 3rd, 2004, 05:37 PM	#38
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	Patrick, C mouunts were mainly used in 16mm film cameras like Bolex and Beaulieu. Now, you can find them mainly on industrial/machine vision/security cameras. They are quite small lenses, some of them of very high quality. The 16mm format is a bit larger than the current pro 2/3 video. The XL1 has a 1/3 chip. Have a look on eBay or local second hand photo shops that sell also movie camera stuff. I think that these lenses would be a better option than a 35mm stills camera lens, as they are designed to cover a smaller area (different circle of confusion...) and their characteristics are more suitable for this project.

June 4th, 2004, 04:20 AM	#39
Stephen Birdsong Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 125	There is such a vast amount of information out there on building some sort of home built mini35 system. I've read much of Agus and Aldu's posts, but they do not address the concerns for an xl1s. Im an owner of an xl1s with a 14x manual lense. I cannot focus on anything closer than 4 feet, and with anything but the widest setting, even farther. I understand the concept of the static ground glass setup, but I have no idea how I can acheive focus on the flange depth of a 35mm lens with my lense. Additionally, I've heard so many tings about fresnels, acromatic diopters etc... Are these all really necessary? What have other Xl1s users found? What sort of lense do I need to be able to focus with a longer focal length at less than 6 inches? its so hard to sift through all the posts out there on this topic, especially when much of the information does not apply to the xl1s. Would anyone be so kind as to give it to me in a condensed form? Im ready to put down the money for the materials to start expirementing, but Im not sure where to start. Thanks, Stephen

June 4th, 2004, 06:23 PM	#41
Stephen Birdsong Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 125	Im familar with the macro setting, but, it is at widest setting, and you will see the entire ground glass rather than the projected image full frame. Perhaps with some sort of telephoto in front of the lens, with the macro setting on it would be possible. I wouldnt know where to start without simply expirementing with different lenses, which I dont exactly have the opportunity to do. Stephen

June 4th, 2004, 08:59 PM	#43
Valeriu Campan Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 223	<<<-- Originally posted by Stephen Birdsong : I wouldnt know where to start without simply expirementing with different lenses, which I dont exactly have the opportunity to do. Stephen -->>> You can adapt a cMount adaptor in to the camera body cap and attach a small macro lens for 16mm. or get an adaptor for a 35mm Nikon macro lens from: http://www.lesbosher.co.uk/XL1.asp or http://www.zgc.com/zgc.nsf/active/200471117190AB9E85256B81000CB326. You will get a lot of distortion and unpleasant focusing problems with various diopters and third party attachments. Even an enlarging lens with a M39 thread will give a better result than the myriad of attachments suggested. Also the size of a rig of your XL1 with standard lens and adaptors will put a Panavision camera to shame.

June 4th, 2004, 10:46 PM	#44
Stephen Birdsong Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 125	Ok, I've started on my first prototype, and wanted to post on it. I found that Hollywood Frost works great as a substitute for ground glass. If your not familiar with it, hollywood frost, also known as opal, is a gel used in production. What I did was take a somewhat sturdy box resembling a shoebox (it held a iron at one point). I cut it in half, and rigged it so that one end went into the other so I essentally had a box that I could shorten or lengthen. I then measured my flange distance (im using an olympus OMG 50mm lense) and placed a large cut-out of hollywood frost at the flange depth. When I pointed the box at an object, I got a very crisp image projected onto the hollywood frost. Now, I took my camera, and inserted the lens into the other end of my box, and drew focus. Obviously, Im not going to have a full frame at this point, because Im required to use the macro setting which is equivilant to a 35mm focal length (i think). So, my problems are this: Im getting a serious hot spot, with major vignetting, and I need to be able to fill the frame with the image. Im not sure if I understand the difference between a close up filter and a tele. I do know that I need to be able to focus at less than 3 inches (which I can already do), and I need to be able to zoom to something like 600mm. Any ideas? Stephen Ill try to post pictures of what Im talking about soon.

June 8th, 2004, 08:59 AM	#45
Anders Floe Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 91	To: Valeriu Campan I might have misunderstood your post but: Are you suggesting that you could build a relay lens (like the one the mini35 uses) out of a lens-mount and a macro lens? I'm danish and I'm having difficulties interpreting what exactly a camerabody cap is? Do you mean the plastic dustprotector you can put directly in front of the ccd chip - where you would normally mount the lens?? I think I'm getting more and more confused every day on how to get started on my adaptor! Thanks