Microcrystalline Wax Techniques?

Frank Ladner · January 31st, 2005, 12:55 PM

Keith...any ideas about removing bubbles are welcome! I'm waiting to hear more. :-)

Jim Lafferty · January 31st, 2005, 01:12 PM

Quote:

...any ideas about removing bubbles are welcome!

Agreed. I was thinking it might work to use a vaccum sealer for that kinda thing -- the kind you can purchase for food. Who knows how successful it would be, especially with the expense and the dangers of cracking the glass :/

- jim

Frank Ladner · January 31st, 2005, 01:26 PM

I've heard mention of a vacuum technique before, and would like to hear more about it as a possible production technique. (Although it would likely be out of my price range. :-) )

Keith Kline · January 31st, 2005, 05:10 PM

Well that's on the right track of what i was thinking actually. My friend does special FX makeup and prop building. He has something used for mixing (foam i think). It's bascially a small vacuum chamber used to remove the air from the foam. I asked him about and said we can try it. We're not sure if it will pull a vacuum that strong, but it'll be worth a try. Generally the foam it's designed for is alot less viscous than even the melted wax, but it's worth a shot. I still haven't made it to a craft place to check out the micro wax, but i'll let everyone know when I do.

Martin Diruf · January 31st, 2005, 10:46 PM

Hi there,

There is a little company in Germany which seem to have the knowhow and quite resonable prices to produce screens of the quality we may need. They call their product "glasscreen":

http://www.glasscreen.com

For a spinning 35mm adapter I asked them for the possibility of a glasscreen in shape of a CD. They answered, this would be no problem.

cheers,
martin

Brandt Wilson · February 1st, 2005, 01:47 PM

Call your local pattern supply company, the places that supply plasters and various molding compounds. Usually, they have industrial bell jar vacuum chambers that are used for evacuating bubbles from plastics and the molding compounds. The place about 5 mins from where I work in Portland charges $10/day.

When I get a spare day to work on this, I'm going to try the following procedure:

Put the bottom piece of glass in a sealing frame
Put the spacer rim on the glass (ouside the viewing area)
Pour in the molten wax
Put in the top piece of glass
While the wax is still molten (put on top of a battery powered peltier cooler/warmer), put on the bell jar and evacuate the pressure. Keep it at 0 bar until the was solidifies.

Like I said, when I get some spare time...

Aaron Shaw · February 1st, 2005, 01:58 PM

definitely let us know how that turns out!

Frank Ladner · February 1st, 2005, 02:21 PM

Yes, definately keep us updated!

Cody Dulock · February 1st, 2005, 02:43 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Martin Diruf : Hi there,

There is a little company in Germany which seem to have the knowhow and quite resonable prices to produce screens of the quality we may need. They call their product "glasscreen":

http://www.glasscreen.com

For a spinning 35mm adapter I asked them for the possibility of a glasscreen in shape of a CD. They answered, this would be no problem.

cheers,
martin -->>>

did you see how much it would cost in $US dollars?

Keith Kline · February 3rd, 2005, 01:03 AM

Okay i still haven't had a chance to check the craft stores for they have, but I found a few other places. Tell me how bad this sucks. I found a place that's literally 2 miles from my driveway that makes microcrsytalline wax. really high quality stuff for the rubber and plastics industry. Called them today and they don't sell to the public nor would they even give me a small sample, which i even offered to pay for. Anway the one place I found carries two types and I was wondering if anyone had any input on which might be better. According to the info one is slightly softer and melts at 175F and the other is slightly harder and melts at 195F. My first thought is the higher melting point might be better so the screen doesn't melt, but is there any benefit to having it slightly softer? The only other factor is the way it comes. The Micro 175 comes in an 11 lbs. block and the Micro 195 only comes in bead form... so it'd be a 11 lbs. bag of wax beads. Also getting the vacuum chamber from my friend to see if that will help me aviod bubbles. I'll let you guys know as soon as I get to test out my ideas.

Anyway any input on which of the waxes I should try would be great. Cost wise the block of 175 is cheaper (about $26 shipped/11 lbs.) and the 195 (about $32 shipped/11lbs.) I know that's alot of wax, but I figure I'd rather have way too much than not enough.

Aaron Shaw · February 3rd, 2005, 08:45 AM

I wouldn't worry about the wax melting! 175f is hot!

Keith Kline · February 3rd, 2005, 11:02 AM

that's pretty much what i was figuring. I just wasn't sure if there'd be any advantage to it being more or less flexible. I mean since it's going between 2 pieces of glass I guess it wouldn't really matter anyway right? Also where is everyone getting their pieces of glass?

Jim Lafferty · February 3rd, 2005, 11:22 AM

The Strahl and Pitch wax I use is rated with a 96 degree melting point, which means it could possibly melt if left for long periods in the sun on a very hot day, but....I wouldn't do that to my cam anyway.

How you're going to work with 175 rated wax seems a little challenging to say the least :D

- jim

Roman Shafro · February 3rd, 2005, 02:30 PM

If anyone is really serious about vacuum, I suggest you get a working compressor from a discarded fridge. I made an airbrush compressor out of one, and it works great. I also saw ppl using it for vacuum-forming of foam parts. Just cover the outlet with a sponge or something, to absorb the oil that'll spit out ;)

I've lost references to vacuum-forming, but here's something to give you an idea:

http://clubhyper.com/reference/compressorgi_1.htm and
http://www.old.modelarstwo.org.pl/te...ka2/index.html - I hope you can read Polish... Nah, just look at the pictures!

Filip Kovcin · February 3rd, 2005, 05:26 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Keith Kline : I know that's alot of wax, but I figure I'd rather have way too much than not enough. -->>>

hey Keith, you can always SELL this wax to someone like people on this forum... :) maybe this is idea what to do with the rest of it when you finish your GG.

filip

January 31st, 2005, 05:10 PM	#124
Keith Kline Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 153	Bubbles Well that's on the right track of what i was thinking actually. My friend does special FX makeup and prop building. He has something used for mixing (foam i think). It's bascially a small vacuum chamber used to remove the air from the foam. I asked him about and said we can try it. We're not sure if it will pull a vacuum that strong, but it'll be worth a try. Generally the foam it's designed for is alot less viscous than even the melted wax, but it's worth a shot. I still haven't made it to a craft place to check out the micro wax, but i'll let everyone know when I do.

January 31st, 2005, 10:46 PM	#125
Martin Diruf New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 9	commercial version Hi there, There is a little company in Germany which seem to have the knowhow and quite resonable prices to produce screens of the quality we may need. They call their product "glasscreen": http://www.glasscreen.com For a spinning 35mm adapter I asked them for the possibility of a glasscreen in shape of a CD. They answered, this would be no problem. cheers, martin

February 1st, 2005, 01:47 PM	#126
Brandt Wilson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 220	Bubble removal Call your local pattern supply company, the places that supply plasters and various molding compounds. Usually, they have industrial bell jar vacuum chambers that are used for evacuating bubbles from plastics and the molding compounds. The place about 5 mins from where I work in Portland charges $10/day. When I get a spare day to work on this, I'm going to try the following procedure: Put the bottom piece of glass in a sealing frame Put the spacer rim on the glass (ouside the viewing area) Pour in the molten wax Put in the top piece of glass While the wax is still molten (put on top of a battery powered peltier cooler/warmer), put on the bell jar and evacuate the pressure. Keep it at 0 bar until the was solidifies. Like I said, when I get some spare time...

February 1st, 2005, 02:43 PM	#129
Cody Dulock Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: arlington, texas Posts: 420	Re: commercial version <<<-- Originally posted by Martin Diruf : Hi there, There is a little company in Germany which seem to have the knowhow and quite resonable prices to produce screens of the quality we may need. They call their product "glasscreen": http://www.glasscreen.com For a spinning 35mm adapter I asked them for the possibility of a glasscreen in shape of a CD. They answered, this would be no problem. cheers, martin -->>> did you see how much it would cost in $US dollars?

February 3rd, 2005, 01:03 AM	#130
Keith Kline Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 153	Micro Wax Okay i still haven't had a chance to check the craft stores for they have, but I found a few other places. Tell me how bad this sucks. I found a place that's literally 2 miles from my driveway that makes microcrsytalline wax. really high quality stuff for the rubber and plastics industry. Called them today and they don't sell to the public nor would they even give me a small sample, which i even offered to pay for. Anway the one place I found carries two types and I was wondering if anyone had any input on which might be better. According to the info one is slightly softer and melts at 175F and the other is slightly harder and melts at 195F. My first thought is the higher melting point might be better so the screen doesn't melt, but is there any benefit to having it slightly softer? The only other factor is the way it comes. The Micro 175 comes in an 11 lbs. block and the Micro 195 only comes in bead form... so it'd be a 11 lbs. bag of wax beads. Also getting the vacuum chamber from my friend to see if that will help me aviod bubbles. I'll let you guys know as soon as I get to test out my ideas. Anyway any input on which of the waxes I should try would be great. Cost wise the block of 175 is cheaper (about $26 shipped/11 lbs.) and the 195 (about $32 shipped/11lbs.) I know that's alot of wax, but I figure I'd rather have way too much than not enough.

January 31st, 2005, 12:55 PM	#121
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Keith...any ideas about removing bubbles are welcome! I'm waiting to hear more. :-)

January 31st, 2005, 01:26 PM	#123
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	I've heard mention of a vacuum technique before, and would like to hear more about it as a possible production technique. (Although it would likely be out of my price range. :-) )

February 1st, 2005, 01:58 PM	#127
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	definitely let us know how that turns out!

February 1st, 2005, 02:21 PM	#128
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Yes, definately keep us updated!

February 3rd, 2005, 08:45 AM	#131
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	I wouldn't worry about the wax melting! 175f is hot!

February 3rd, 2005, 11:02 AM	#132
Keith Kline Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 153	that's pretty much what i was figuring. I just wasn't sure if there'd be any advantage to it being more or less flexible. I mean since it's going between 2 pieces of glass I guess it wouldn't really matter anyway right? Also where is everyone getting their pieces of glass?

February 3rd, 2005, 11:22 AM	#133
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	The Strahl and Pitch wax I use is rated with a 96 degree melting point, which means it could possibly melt if left for long periods in the sun on a very hot day, but....I wouldn't do that to my cam anyway. How you're going to work with 175 rated wax seems a little challenging to say the least :D - jim

February 3rd, 2005, 02:30 PM	#134
Roman Shafro Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 84	For All Those Vacuum Lovers... If anyone is really serious about vacuum, I suggest you get a working compressor from a discarded fridge. I made an airbrush compressor out of one, and it works great. I also saw ppl using it for vacuum-forming of foam parts. Just cover the outlet with a sponge or something, to absorb the oil that'll spit out ;) I've lost references to vacuum-forming, but here's something to give you an idea: http://clubhyper.com/reference/compressorgi_1.htm and http://www.old.modelarstwo.org.pl/te...ka2/index.html - I hope you can read Polish... Nah, just look at the pictures!

February 3rd, 2005, 05:26 PM	#135
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	Re: Micro Wax <<<-- Originally posted by Keith Kline : I know that's alot of wax, but I figure I'd rather have way too much than not enough. -->>> hey Keith, you can always SELL this wax to someone like people on this forum... :) maybe this is idea what to do with the rest of it when you finish your GG. filip