Microcrystalline Wax Techniques?

Frank Ladner · November 19th, 2004, 02:17 PM

Aaron: I can't say exactly the thickness of the wax in precise units, but it's however thick a piece of scotch tape is folded twice.
;-)

It is maybe not transparent enough. It really wants a lot of light, but I don't have as bad of a hotspot problem. It seems to distribute more evenly.

Aaron: I've heard the wax paper mentioned before. Not sure if there's been any success with it, though. Seems like the paper bits or whatever would show up. It is worth a try, though.

Hrm...I wonder if you could use something that light in conjunction with a piezo element to get a quick vibration that maybe isn't possible with a comparitavely heavy piece of glass.
You would just have to be sure the paper vibrates in a uniform fashion and stays straight.

Frank Ladner · November 21st, 2004, 01:13 AM

Hey guys!

I'm glad there are still people downloading the footage! I was afraid that the computer and connection wouldn't be able to handle it.

I just got back from a hobby store, where I purchased some more cheap picture frames and some paraffin wax. I have only used microcrystalline wax for this application so paraffin is a first. I just melted it and poured it in a cup w/ the prepared glass sandwich and it is now cooling. I've been checking back on it periodically and it looks like the stuff takes a lot longer to cool than microcrystalline. Seemed to take longer to melt, also. Maybe next go around I can time it.

Anyhow, if this works as well as the microcrystalline I'll be quite happy since it is a lot more readily available.

How are you guys coming along?

Dogus Aslan · November 22nd, 2004, 12:11 PM

frank that footage is great...i was just abut to finish my mini35 design and u show me this!!!...:)

is it possible u send another footage in the outside and another in the dark...so we can see the responce of the grains to light?

Frank Ladner · November 22nd, 2004, 01:19 PM

Thank you for the compliment, Dogus!

I have already shot some more footage with the adapter and will try to have it ready to upload in the next day or so.

Thanks for the interest!

Also, in my previous post I mentioned trying paraffin wax. Well I don't think it will work for this purpose. The grain is very noticeable as compared to microcrystalline.

Aaron Shaw · November 22nd, 2004, 01:35 PM

hmm interesting Frank. Could you post a few grabs of the grain associated with the Paraffin wax?

Frank Ladner · November 22nd, 2004, 01:43 PM

Aaron: In the next day or two I'll try and put up some pictures of the adapter, and a framegrab w/ the paraffin.

Dario Corno · December 7th, 2004, 03:53 AM

Hi, somoene did more tests on the wax solution ??
Where did you buy the wax ? (I wasn't able to find any online shop with clear specifications except the one posted in this thread).

I got another idea for the wax solution, what about spray wax, the one used for car maintenance ??
MAYBE this could be created without using two pieces of glass, but MAYBE is it possible to just spray one side of a UV filter and get a reasonably accurate film... "shooting" staying quite distant from the lens...

What do u think ?? That polishing wax is quite cheap so it won't be a problem doing some tests....

Régine Weinberg · December 7th, 2004, 06:02 AM

Hi
once I found a link
to a guy in France

Yes I'm living there
but not French by the way

who makes a Boscreen
with a liquid something
between parafine and oil
not cheap
but no grain

Dario Corno · December 7th, 2004, 06:58 AM

Can u please try to find the address again ??? it whould be nice form e (living in Italy) :D

Régine Weinberg · December 7th, 2004, 01:51 PM

sorry but the guy is out of business
so sorry but
it has been 2000 I've spoken to him

Jim Lafferty · December 7th, 2004, 04:05 PM

Try Strahl and Pitch wax -- they might deliver internationally. Ask them for a sample.

Sorry for my long absence -- just got around to working on a new microwax adapter tonight. The wax is solidifiying as I type this :)

- jim

Jim Lafferty · December 7th, 2004, 09:22 PM

Just figured out the hard way that fingerprints are a bitch :)

So, as someone already stated and I'm now going to emphasize -- clean both sides of your glass before placing it in the wax -- oil from fingerprints formed on the inside will prevent the wax from taking to the surface evenly.

On a bright note, no bubbles :)

- jim

Jim Lafferty · December 8th, 2004, 10:43 PM

Initial experiences with my adapter have proven disappointing.

Frank, did you blend the micro wax with paraffin? I ask because the grain of my adapter is significantly greater than that of yours. I'm uploading full res footage now to show you what I mean...

Also, I'm wondering if perhaps I made the gap between filters too wide -- I folded the foil twice over, so it was four pieces thick in the end, and rolled it flat with a rolling pin. Maybe it should be only one or two pieces thick.

More experimentation and footage soon...

- jim

Bob Hart · December 9th, 2004, 07:37 AM

Jim.

I tried the blend suggested some time back of 10% bleached beeswax in paraffin wax when I made the wax composite disks for the spinner. The disks were separated by only one thickness of cooking foil. When put against a strongly contrasted background, the disk could almost be seen through.

The waxdisk*.jpg images in www.dvinfo.net/media/hart came from that. Those I now realise are not valid for a fixed groundglass test.

Another option might be to try your microcrystalline wax and a bleached beeswax blend.

Frank Ladner · December 9th, 2004, 07:40 AM

Jim: I have not mixed the different waxes. All my first experiments were of pure microcrystalline. The last thing I tried was paraffin-only, which yielded more grain than the micro-only version.

November 21st, 2004, 01:13 AM	#62
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Paraffin Hey guys! I'm glad there are still people downloading the footage! I was afraid that the computer and connection wouldn't be able to handle it. I just got back from a hobby store, where I purchased some more cheap picture frames and some paraffin wax. I have only used microcrystalline wax for this application so paraffin is a first. I just melted it and poured it in a cup w/ the prepared glass sandwich and it is now cooling. I've been checking back on it periodically and it looks like the stuff takes a lot longer to cool than microcrystalline. Seemed to take longer to melt, also. Maybe next go around I can time it. Anyhow, if this works as well as the microcrystalline I'll be quite happy since it is a lot more readily available. How are you guys coming along?

December 7th, 2004, 03:53 AM	#67
Dario Corno Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Turin (ITA) Posts: 30	Hi, somoene did more tests on the wax solution ?? Where did you buy the wax ? (I wasn't able to find any online shop with clear specifications except the one posted in this thread). I got another idea for the wax solution, what about spray wax, the one used for car maintenance ?? MAYBE this could be created without using two pieces of glass, but MAYBE is it possible to just spray one side of a UV filter and get a reasonably accurate film... "shooting" staying quite distant from the lens... What do u think ?? That polishing wax is quite cheap so it won't be a problem doing some tests.... __________________ -- rIO.sK www.offiCineItalia.it

December 7th, 2004, 06:58 AM	#69
Dario Corno Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Turin (ITA) Posts: 30	Can u please try to find the address again ??? it whould be nice form e (living in Italy) :D __________________ -- rIO.sK www.offiCineItalia.it

December 7th, 2004, 04:05 PM	#71
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Try Strahl and Pitch wax -- they might deliver internationally. Ask them for a sample. Sorry for my long absence -- just got around to working on a new microwax adapter tonight. The wax is solidifiying as I type this :) - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

December 8th, 2004, 10:43 PM	#73
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Initial experiences with my adapter have proven disappointing. Frank, did you blend the micro wax with paraffin? I ask because the grain of my adapter is significantly greater than that of yours. I'm uploading full res footage now to show you what I mean... Also, I'm wondering if perhaps I made the gap between filters too wide -- I folded the foil twice over, so it was four pieces thick in the end, and rolled it flat with a rolling pin. Maybe it should be only one or two pieces thick. More experimentation and footage soon... - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

November 19th, 2004, 02:17 PM	#61
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Aaron: I can't say exactly the thickness of the wax in precise units, but it's however thick a piece of scotch tape is folded twice. ;-) It is maybe not transparent enough. It really wants a lot of light, but I don't have as bad of a hotspot problem. It seems to distribute more evenly. Aaron: I've heard the wax paper mentioned before. Not sure if there's been any success with it, though. Seems like the paper bits or whatever would show up. It is worth a try, though. Hrm...I wonder if you could use something that light in conjunction with a piezo element to get a quick vibration that maybe isn't possible with a comparitavely heavy piece of glass. You would just have to be sure the paper vibrates in a uniform fashion and stays straight.

November 22nd, 2004, 12:11 PM	#63
Dogus Aslan Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 56	frank that footage is great...i was just abut to finish my mini35 design and u show me this!!!...:) is it possible u send another footage in the outside and another in the dark...so we can see the responce of the grains to light?

November 22nd, 2004, 01:19 PM	#64
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Thank you for the compliment, Dogus! I have already shot some more footage with the adapter and will try to have it ready to upload in the next day or so. Thanks for the interest! Also, in my previous post I mentioned trying paraffin wax. Well I don't think it will work for this purpose. The grain is very noticeable as compared to microcrystalline.

November 22nd, 2004, 01:35 PM	#65
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	hmm interesting Frank. Could you post a few grabs of the grain associated with the Paraffin wax?

November 22nd, 2004, 01:43 PM	#66
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Aaron: In the next day or two I'll try and put up some pictures of the adapter, and a framegrab w/ the paraffin.

December 7th, 2004, 06:02 AM	#68
Régine Weinberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bordeaux, going to Bangkok, 2011 Posts: 232	Hi once I found a link to a guy in France Yes I'm living there but not French by the way who makes a Boscreen with a liquid something between parafine and oil not cheap but no grain

December 7th, 2004, 01:51 PM	#70
Régine Weinberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bordeaux, going to Bangkok, 2011 Posts: 232	sorry but the guy is out of business so sorry but it has been 2000 I've spoken to him

December 7th, 2004, 09:22 PM	#72
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Just figured out the hard way that fingerprints are a bitch :) So, as someone already stated and I'm now going to emphasize -- clean both sides of your glass before placing it in the wax -- oil from fingerprints formed on the inside will prevent the wax from taking to the surface evenly. On a bright note, no bubbles :) - jim

December 9th, 2004, 07:37 AM	#74
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Jim. I tried the blend suggested some time back of 10% bleached beeswax in paraffin wax when I made the wax composite disks for the spinner. The disks were separated by only one thickness of cooking foil. When put against a strongly contrasted background, the disk could almost be seen through. The waxdisk*.jpg images in www.dvinfo.net/media/hart came from that. Those I now realise are not valid for a fixed groundglass test. Another option might be to try your microcrystalline wax and a bleached beeswax blend.

December 9th, 2004, 07:40 AM	#75
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Jim: I have not mixed the different waxes. All my first experiments were of pure microcrystalline. The last thing I tried was paraffin-only, which yielded more grain than the micro-only version.