Microcrystalline Wax Techniques?

Frank Ladner · June 2nd, 2005, 01:33 PM

Oscar:

You mention using regular wax in your experiments. Have you considered trying Microcrystalline? It is supposed to have a finer structure. I know it worked well for me. I got a couple of 1 LB samples from http://www.spwax.com.

Oscar Spierenburg · June 2nd, 2005, 03:58 PM

Frank, I'll definitely try Microcrystalline when I get my hands on it. Should it be available at candle making suppliers shops?
Until now, I am mostly busy figuring out a way to get the wax (any kind) evenly and without any dust or bubbles as easy as possible.
Tonight I had the best effort so far. Very easy and clean to do, but I'll post details tomorrow when I know if it holds without cracking.

Leo Mandy · June 2nd, 2005, 07:33 PM

Oscar, I love the cat shot - that looked really good! What spacers are you using now?

Daves Spi · June 3rd, 2005, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Leo

Oscar, I love the cat shot - that looked really good! What spacers are you using now?

Oh, I have missed this one... Looks great...

Did you try to heat the glass too ? Maybe the way to not remelting the wax... I mean put the glass to hot water before puting the wax in. Do not know if possible, but think about it ;-) About waxing your hair... I think the hair is good spacer ;-)

Rob Lohman · June 3rd, 2005, 04:26 AM

Thanks Oscar! How are you heating that stuff?

Leo Mandy · June 3rd, 2005, 05:38 AM

I think with the spacers, you need something that will keep the entire piece of glass level - I don't know if hair will do it, but what the hell, you have been doing awesome as it is - go for it!

Oscar Spierenburg · June 3rd, 2005, 06:31 AM

Daves, thanks, I did heat the glass on a hot-plate.

Rob, this is the easiest method I tested so far:
Use an electric hot-plate (warmhoudplaatje), maybe even those for coffee work.
Put the wax in a little metal box (like a aluminium cigar box) heat it and when the wax is melted put a clear lens filter on the bottom. Leave the metal ring on the filter and put the highest side up so you have a round bucket full of wax. If needed, vibrate the air out.
Now you need a smaler piece of glass (round if you have it) with some spacers. I used normal clear tape, but that produces some bubbles (like Frank said earlier in the thread), so I'll try some other things today. Heat that piece of glass and flip it on top of the filter (flip it from one side so you push out the air) Push it down until the spacers touch the filter glass.
Put the cigar case on a flat surface and let it cool down.
Now what is crucial is to leave the wax on the sides of the glass when you clean it, like this:
http://s01.picshome.com/a48/filterwax.jpg (you can also see how thin the wax is)

Now that this method works, I'll try to find Microcrystalline wax.

Keith Kline · June 3rd, 2005, 10:46 AM

Okay I'm finally back. The wax is looking really good Oscar. I had been checking out your progress ever so often but have been really busy with family stuff. You got me motivated again though and I cut about 6 or 8 pairs of glass circles to try to melt some wax again. So far I've only done 1 an it was too think, but the layer itself was pretty even and wasn't too messed up. There was only like 1 bubble and it was way out of the frame area. I'll try to post some new pics tonight and I'm gonna try and run some more.

Oscar let me know if you don't have any luck finding the micro wax. It took me forever to find some when I was looking. The best places I found were candle suppliers.

Jim Lafferty · June 3rd, 2005, 11:13 AM

Strahl and Pitsch wax suppliers will ship you a 1lb sample. They're very understanding and willing to help if you explain that you're attempting to make a device that you hope to replicate at a later time once it's perfected.

- jim

Jim Lafferty · June 3rd, 2005, 11:32 AM

A few more sample images:

http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/waxgrabs/bestwax.jpg

This one is a framegrab showing the wax inconsistencies that began to ruin my best wax attempts. As the wax layer began to get thinner and thinner, and I began to perfect the removal of bubbles, and used the refrigerator for a rapid cooling, these inconsistencies would lessen but never fully disappear. Having the wax finally bubble and hair free, and at the same time thin enough, these "smudges" were ultimately the problem I simply couldn't solve.

http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micron/3micron0.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micron/3micron1.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micron/3micron2.jpg

Three shots using the 3 micron GG. You can see the grain, but it is an overall more consistent surface than the waxed glass, which I find a better trade-off. These images are frame-grabs from the timeline de-interlaced in PShop using "interpolate". They're less "grey" than the pervious images due to better lighting -- I generally try to shoot with poor-to-average lighting (natural light only or one 60w bulb in the room) to expose the weaknesses in whatever GG I'm testing. Under "ideal" conditions, many of these adapters look to produce great imagery -- and I find that deceiving.

I have some outdoor, really sunny stuff that I'll post later.

- jim

Dan Diaconu · June 3rd, 2005, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Lafferty

Under "ideal" conditions, many of these adapters look to produce great imagery -- and I find that deceiving.

True, true! (especialy clips on the net), but that's till you get to see it first hand........ your images look good though. (too bad sometimes we still have to pan/tilt and dam' life just don't stay still...lol.... is just crazy...(;-)<

Jim Lafferty · June 3rd, 2005, 12:36 PM

Dan Diaconu · June 3rd, 2005, 12:58 PM

Very nice pics (all)!!!. Some texture on some (in the soft areas), but....hey! If we look back at images posted 6mo-1year or so ago....... we've come a loooong way. You definitely can use this one.

Oscar Spierenburg · June 3rd, 2005, 06:26 PM

Welcome back Keith. I got you started on the anamorphics and you got me started on the wax.

Jim, those images are surprisingly good for a static, non-wax GG. In post you can also try a slight gray diffusion so reduce the contrast of the grain.

So, the round wax glass I posted today (http://s01.picshome.com/a48/filterwax.jpg) wasn't perfect, but after remelting it was as good as Paraffine can get I think. A totally even layer of wax without any bubbles or dust. And the easiest method so far.
I tried to contact candle making shops today for microcrystalline, but without luck (biggest one was closed on Friday)
Here are some results with the new GG:

http://doublecam.250free.com/wax/wax.html (takes time to load)

The boot and the Rollei are shot with very low light. You can see the grain of the wax varies very much with lighting conditions. You can call it deceiving(which it is in a way), but if there are simple settings to be learned, than that's just something to deal with, like lighting techniques for film.
Look at the shot of the sky, almost no grain, that makes me wonder.

Frank Ladner · June 4th, 2005, 08:50 PM

For those interested, I looked up the company that makes the magifying visors that I got my condenser lenses from. Here's a link:

http://www.doneganoptical.com/catalog/opti/

June 3rd, 2005, 04:26 AM	#260
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Thanks Oscar! How are you heating that stuff? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 3rd, 2005, 10:46 AM	#263
Keith Kline Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 153	I'm Back Okay I'm finally back. The wax is looking really good Oscar. I had been checking out your progress ever so often but have been really busy with family stuff. You got me motivated again though and I cut about 6 or 8 pairs of glass circles to try to melt some wax again. So far I've only done 1 an it was too think, but the layer itself was pretty even and wasn't too messed up. There was only like 1 bubble and it was way out of the frame area. I'll try to post some new pics tonight and I'm gonna try and run some more. Oscar let me know if you don't have any luck finding the micro wax. It took me forever to find some when I was looking. The best places I found were candle suppliers.

June 3rd, 2005, 11:13 AM	#264
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	Strahl and Pitsch wax suppliers will ship you a 1lb sample. They're very understanding and willing to help if you explain that you're attempting to make a device that you hope to replicate at a later time once it's perfected. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

June 3rd, 2005, 11:32 AM	#265
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	A few more sample images: http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/waxgrabs/bestwax.jpg This one is a framegrab showing the wax inconsistencies that began to ruin my best wax attempts. As the wax layer began to get thinner and thinner, and I began to perfect the removal of bubbles, and used the refrigerator for a rapid cooling, these inconsistencies would lessen but never fully disappear. Having the wax finally bubble and hair free, and at the same time thin enough, these "smudges" were ultimately the problem I simply couldn't solve. http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micron/3micron0.jpg http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micron/3micron1.jpg http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micron/3micron2.jpg Three shots using the 3 micron GG. You can see the grain, but it is an overall more consistent surface than the waxed glass, which I find a better trade-off. These images are frame-grabs from the timeline de-interlaced in PShop using "interpolate". They're less "grey" than the pervious images due to better lighting -- I generally try to shoot with poor-to-average lighting (natural light only or one 60w bulb in the room) to expose the weaknesses in whatever GG I'm testing. Under "ideal" conditions, many of these adapters look to produce great imagery -- and I find that deceiving. I have some outdoor, really sunny stuff that I'll post later. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G

June 3rd, 2005, 12:36 PM	#267
Jim Lafferty Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 636	OK, here are some outdoor sunny shots: http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micr...n-outside0.jpg http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micr...n-outside1.jpg http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micr...n-outside2.jpg http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micr...n-outside3.jpg http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micr...n-outside4.jpg http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micr...n-outside5.jpg http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micr...n-outside6.jpg http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micr...n-outside7.jpg http://ideaspora.net/35mmadapt/3micr...n-outside8.jpg All flipped and de-interlaced only -- no CC work done to them. Though, on that note, I've noticed that a mild Color Curves, bringing the blacks closer to absolute black, gets a lot of the graininess of footage gone. You really don't notice it much in the highs. - jim __________________ Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G Last edited by Jim Lafferty; June 3rd, 2005 at 02:21 PM.

June 2nd, 2005, 01:33 PM	#256
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Oscar: You mention using regular wax in your experiments. Have you considered trying Microcrystalline? It is supposed to have a finer structure. I know it worked well for me. I got a couple of 1 LB samples from http://www.spwax.com.

June 2nd, 2005, 03:58 PM	#257
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Frank, I'll definitely try Microcrystalline when I get my hands on it. Should it be available at candle making suppliers shops? Until now, I am mostly busy figuring out a way to get the wax (any kind) evenly and without any dust or bubbles as easy as possible. Tonight I had the best effort so far. Very easy and clean to do, but I'll post details tomorrow when I know if it holds without cracking.

June 2nd, 2005, 07:33 PM	#258
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Oscar, I love the cat shot - that looked really good! What spacers are you using now?

June 3rd, 2005, 05:38 AM	#261
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	I think with the spacers, you need something that will keep the entire piece of glass level - I don't know if hair will do it, but what the hell, you have been doing awesome as it is - go for it!

June 3rd, 2005, 06:31 AM	#262
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Daves, thanks, I did heat the glass on a hot-plate. Rob, this is the easiest method I tested so far: Use an electric hot-plate (warmhoudplaatje), maybe even those for coffee work. Put the wax in a little metal box (like a aluminium cigar box) heat it and when the wax is melted put a clear lens filter on the bottom. Leave the metal ring on the filter and put the highest side up so you have a round bucket full of wax. If needed, vibrate the air out. Now you need a smaler piece of glass (round if you have it) with some spacers. I used normal clear tape, but that produces some bubbles (like Frank said earlier in the thread), so I'll try some other things today. Heat that piece of glass and flip it on top of the filter (flip it from one side so you push out the air) Push it down until the spacers touch the filter glass. Put the cigar case on a flat surface and let it cool down. Now what is crucial is to leave the wax on the sides of the glass when you clean it, like this: http://s01.picshome.com/a48/filterwax.jpg (you can also see how thin the wax is) Now that this method works, I'll try to find Microcrystalline wax.

June 3rd, 2005, 12:58 PM	#268
Dan Diaconu Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 804	Very nice pics (all)!!!. Some texture on some (in the soft areas), but....hey! If we look back at images posted 6mo-1year or so ago....... we've come a loooong way. You definitely can use this one.

June 3rd, 2005, 06:26 PM	#269
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	Welcome back Keith. I got you started on the anamorphics and you got me started on the wax. Jim, those images are surprisingly good for a static, non-wax GG. In post you can also try a slight gray diffusion so reduce the contrast of the grain. So, the round wax glass I posted today (http://s01.picshome.com/a48/filterwax.jpg) wasn't perfect, but after remelting it was as good as Paraffine can get I think. A totally even layer of wax without any bubbles or dust. And the easiest method so far. I tried to contact candle making shops today for microcrystalline, but without luck (biggest one was closed on Friday) Here are some results with the new GG: http://doublecam.250free.com/wax/wax.html (takes time to load) The boot and the Rollei are shot with very low light. You can see the grain of the wax varies very much with lighting conditions. You can call it deceiving(which it is in a way), but if there are simple settings to be learned, than that's just something to deal with, like lighting techniques for film. Look at the shot of the sky, almost no grain, that makes me wonder.

June 4th, 2005, 08:50 PM	#270
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	For those interested, I looked up the company that makes the magifying visors that I got my condenser lenses from. Here's a link: http://www.doneganoptical.com/catalog/opti/