Mini35 w/ PD150/170? at DVinfo.net

Tony Rogers · August 13th, 2004, 05:15 PM

Anyone here tried the Mini adapter for PD150, or int particular, the 170?? I belive the PD170 has less of a SNR than the DVX, so it may work just as well or better. Not sure. Any input? Any severe limitations encountered?

Thanks!

Dennis Hingsberg · August 13th, 2004, 07:19 PM

I use an XL1s with the mini35 and have no noise issues, why would the PD150 or the PD170?

I believe the noise issue with the DVX was linked to the Cine D mode on the DVX. Either way if you use lighting, expose your scene using your lit subjects, then go back and light your backgrounds, etc.. you really should be fine.

Noise or grain usually only becomes present when the camera electronics are trying to compensate for a low lit / dark scene.

Lighting, lighting, lighting!

Charles Papert · August 14th, 2004, 12:31 PM

**groan** that damn Cine D mode...definitely avoid it.

Regardless of mode, my feeling about the DVX is that it presents more noise overall than comparable cameras in its class. I like everything else about it, but I feel like I can generally pick out material that was shot with this camera from the noise pattern, even on well-lit material.

Dennis Hingsberg · August 14th, 2004, 01:16 PM

If you still experience some noise, you might want to try Grain Surgery or go the free way and look into post production tools Virtual Dub and AVI Synth. There are some great Noise Reduction filters available - and they are free.

Charles, you might also like to know after most of your posts recommending frame mode on the XL1s I finally did some tests using frame mode on my PAL XL1s and have to say I do like the results and not having to deinterlace in post is definitely a time and hassle saver.

PAL has saved me from having to cross over to the DVX with my mini35 kit and adapters, and the frame mode on Canon makes it all that much better. Now I'm waiting to cross over to the XL2 which should be soon.

You can see my frame mode PAL test footage in this thread:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=30336

Charles Papert · August 14th, 2004, 02:25 PM

Yes, I watched that Dennis and it looks very nice.

I'm planning on shooting some tests when the XL2 comes around of the same scene with both the XL2 and the DVX so I can qualitatively decide which camera I prefer for myself. I like the added control of the DVX over the XL2, but I still like the smooth tones of the XL1s.

Glad to hear you are liking Frame mode.

Thanks for recommending the post tools.

Best,

Dennis Hingsberg · August 14th, 2004, 02:44 PM

Wouldn't some of the noise on the DVX be attributed to the fact that you are losing probably close to 2 stops through the stock lens of the DVX and would need to compensate electronically? Just a thought.

As for those post tools, you can find many free filter links here: http://neuron2.net. Some of these filters will blow you away when you see what they can do. The real beauty is the speed. Up until frame mode many of these tools were what I used to perform advanced deinterlacing, and I have to say they were not bad at all - especially since they were free.

Charles Papert · August 14th, 2004, 03:13 PM

Dennis:

I don't compensate for the loss of the exposure with the Mini35, I just shoot at a higher base level of exposure. In other words, I keep the gain on low and pump in more light.

My observation of the noise level is also based in using just the stock DVX, and observing other's shorts shot with it. I believe that many people are aware of the noise but consider it "film-like" and thus a positive attribute...!

August 13th, 2004, 05:15 PM	#1
Tony Rogers New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Winston-Salem Posts: 16	Mini35 w/ PD150/170? Anyone here tried the Mini adapter for PD150, or int particular, the 170?? I belive the PD170 has less of a SNR than the DVX, so it may work just as well or better. Not sure. Any input? Any severe limitations encountered? Thanks!

August 13th, 2004, 07:19 PM	#2
Dennis Hingsberg Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,055	I use an XL1s with the mini35 and have no noise issues, why would the PD150 or the PD170? I believe the noise issue with the DVX was linked to the Cine D mode on the DVX. Either way if you use lighting, expose your scene using your lit subjects, then go back and light your backgrounds, etc.. you really should be fine. Noise or grain usually only becomes present when the camera electronics are trying to compensate for a low lit / dark scene. Lighting, lighting, lighting! __________________ Blog: www.hingsberg.com Ultimate Exposure Guides for FS5/F7S/F5/F55

August 14th, 2004, 12:31 PM	#3
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	groan that damn Cine D mode...definitely avoid it. Regardless of mode, my feeling about the DVX is that it presents more noise overall than comparable cameras in its class. I like everything else about it, but I feel like I can generally pick out material that was shot with this camera from the noise pattern, even on well-lit material. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

August 14th, 2004, 01:16 PM	#4
Dennis Hingsberg Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,055	If you still experience some noise, you might want to try Grain Surgery or go the free way and look into post production tools Virtual Dub and AVI Synth. There are some great Noise Reduction filters available - and they are free. Charles, you might also like to know after most of your posts recommending frame mode on the XL1s I finally did some tests using frame mode on my PAL XL1s and have to say I do like the results and not having to deinterlace in post is definitely a time and hassle saver. PAL has saved me from having to cross over to the DVX with my mini35 kit and adapters, and the frame mode on Canon makes it all that much better. Now I'm waiting to cross over to the XL2 which should be soon. You can see my frame mode PAL test footage in this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=30336 __________________ Blog: www.hingsberg.com Ultimate Exposure Guides for FS5/F7S/F5/F55

August 14th, 2004, 02:25 PM	#5
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Yes, I watched that Dennis and it looks very nice. I'm planning on shooting some tests when the XL2 comes around of the same scene with both the XL2 and the DVX so I can qualitatively decide which camera I prefer for myself. I like the added control of the DVX over the XL2, but I still like the smooth tones of the XL1s. Glad to hear you are liking Frame mode. Thanks for recommending the post tools. Best, __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

August 14th, 2004, 02:44 PM	#6
Dennis Hingsberg Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,055	Wouldn't some of the noise on the DVX be attributed to the fact that you are losing probably close to 2 stops through the stock lens of the DVX and would need to compensate electronically? Just a thought. As for those post tools, you can find many free filter links here: http://neuron2.net. Some of these filters will blow you away when you see what they can do. The real beauty is the speed. Up until frame mode many of these tools were what I used to perform advanced deinterlacing, and I have to say they were not bad at all - especially since they were free. __________________ Blog: www.hingsberg.com Ultimate Exposure Guides for FS5/F7S/F5/F55

August 14th, 2004, 03:13 PM	#7
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Dennis: I don't compensate for the loss of the exposure with the Mini35, I just shoot at a higher base level of exposure. In other words, I keep the gain on low and pump in more light. My observation of the noise level is also based in using just the stock DVX, and observing other's shorts shot with it. I believe that many people are aware of the noise but consider it "film-like" and thus a positive attribute...! __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com