8mm film cams

[Kevin Lee]

There's a dude popping over tomorrow with some old 8mm cameras.
Am looking to purchase one. i have never handled one before.
What should i look out for? And is 8mm and Super 8 interchangable i.e. can a basic 8mm cam shoot both?

Thanks.

[Keith Kline]

Hi, I'm new here. I just joined a few days ago and wanted to say hi and I'm learning alot. Thanks for all the info everyone.

8mm and super 8mm are not interchangable. I would look for one that is Super 8mm. They are alot easier to get film for. I couldn't even tell you where to find film for regular 8mm. Idealy it would nice to find a camera with interchangable lens, but a majority of 8mm cameras have a fixed lens. Someone posted on another thread about the cameras that pro 8mm sells.

www.pro8mm.com

When I was looking for my Super 8 cameras I checked their site out and really liked the Classic model, but 2,500 is alot. Well needless to say my frugal nature kicked in and I realized the camera was actually just a rebuilt Beaulieu camera. They buy and rebuild them, then throw a coat a paint on a resell them. Anyone after I found that out I looked on Ebay and got a pair of them with 3 lens and a lens adapter for $500. I lucked out but you can find them pretty cheap sometimes and you can always have them serviced and it sure as heck won't be anywhere near 2,500. If you want more info on them do a search of Beaulieu 4008.

IT all depends on what you want to do with it really, but if you're looking towards a more professional 8mm camera Beaulieu's might be something you want to check out.

[Kevin Lee]

Hi Keith and thanks for your reply.

I am familiar with the pro8mm site. Would most probably engage them at some point.

I'm more into writing/directing but would like to broaden my base knowledge a bit. Am curious about originating some footage on film.

Ideally, as you mentioned, it'd be great if i do get my hands on a decent camera with interchangable lens that will allow me to get a feel of modern film stocks (assuming super8 uses same stock as 35mm).
I wouldn't really want to spend a bomb so the Beaulieu 4008 might be something i'm looking for indeed.

Have you got sample footage transferred to video i could have a look at?

Thanks

[Richard Alvarez]

Most super 8 cams will not have interchangeable lenses, most regular 8 cams will.

Yes, you can still buy and develop regular 8 filmstock, but it does not come in as many emulsions as super 8.

Kodak is now selling the vision series negative super 8 stock, so the only way to view it is with a transfer to tape (telecine). The reversal stocks in Color and B&W are still available (Kodachrome, Ektachrome, PanX and Plus X), so you can shoot and project it when processed.

Super 8 is great fun, and a good way to get film experience at a low entry cost.

[Joshua Starnes]

If you're serious about shooting 8mm, you're better off getting film from Pro8 than using the old Kodak stuff.

Basically, Pro8 has taken current 16mm film, cut it down and resprocketed it so that it will work in an 8mm or Super 8mm camera. It gives you the wide latitude in film choice (grain, exposure latitude, etc.) that older 8mm films don't.

[Kevin Lee]

"Super 8 is great fun, and a good way to get film experience at a low entry cost."
Yes, my thoughts too. Immediate intentions will be a telecine to video for editting.

There's a writeup on the Beaulieu 4008 here:
http://www.bondy.de/beaulieu/beaulieu.html

It seems they're going for about US$1k+ serviced...
Are there any other recommendations?

[Kevin Lee]

Joshua Starnes,
So i can use pro8 film on a regular 8mm cam?
I just checked and they seem to have only 2 stocks for regular 8 i.e. Plus-X & Ektachrome.
http://www.pro8mm.com/us/film.htm

Pardon my naivity but lemme just 2xcheck i got this right...
1)8mm cams will not play super8 and vice versa as the films are sproketed differently.
2) Most Cams will run at options -18/24/36/48f/s?

[Matthew Groff]

For those of you who don't know, Pro8mm has a reputation (I've never dealt with them) for terrible customer service. That coupled with the fact that their cameras are exorbitantly priced doesn't seem like a good deal to me.

If you're just experimenting why not pick up a decent Nizo or Canon or Nikon, etc. on ebay for $50-100? Regular 8 and Super 8 are basically different film formats that use almost the same width stock. There are projectors that will handle both but no cameras as far as I know. Most entry-level cameras will run at 18 fps and may come with a fixed focus lens. I am a fan of Nizo cameras, but there are tons of other cameras that run at 24 fps (like a theatrical print) all the way up to 54 fps for slow-mo work.

Joshua Starnes: Someone has misled you (most likely Pro8mm literature it would seem). Kodak recently unveiled both Vision2 200T and Vision2 500T in Super 8mm. Those are 2 of the most technically advanced stocks Kodak has. Not to mention the fact that Kodachrome 40 is a beautiful stock with very fine grain whose only real problem is its processing difficulty.

[Richard Alvarez]

Mathew is correct, the new Kodak stocks are amazing.

As for good reccomendations for super 8 cams, (I own twelve of them I use for teaching). I like the minolta's... they are built like trucks, and really solid optics. The D6 and D12 can usually be had for around thirty bucks.

Also Sankyos are good. Some I use have excellent intervallometers for time laps, frame speeds up to 48 fps Priced up to 100 bucks.

The Elmo 612 and 1012 are really nice too. Much like the Canons. They are sound cameras, but run the usual silent cartridges. Expect to spend more than 100 on these.

I own a number of regular 8 cams. These will have "prime" lenses, instead of zoom. The regular 8 cameras run film on spools, so the pressure plate is in the camera NOT in the cartridge. This makes for slightly better registration than the super 8 cartridge provides... less chance for jitter and weave. But the regular 8 film is a smaller frame than super 8, and harder to find projectors . Though many older projectors have a switch that rotates a sprocket and mask to play both formats. Cameras will shoot ONLY in one format or the other.

As long as you are digging around the film attic, take a look at Canon SCOOPIC 16mm cameras. These are like the modern super 8 cams, but run 16mm film instead. Just as easy to use, and you are stepping up in format. Look for them at anywhere from 200 to 600 dollars. They come with a fixed zoom lens and internal light meter. TV stations used to use them in the 70's.

Have fun.

[Les Dit]

I think it's great that Kodak is releasing the new stocks in 8mm.
For the benefit of those of us that haven't used 8mm for a while, can someone tell us about how much it costs for the film and processing?
They are 4 minutes per roll, right ?

-Les

[Matthew Groff]

A roll is 2.5 min (much like 100 ft of 16mm) at 24 fps and about 3 at 18 fps. I haven't actually had the chance to shoot any unfortunately, but I would assume that it's probably $15-20 for a cartridge and then another $15-20 for processing.



mg

[Richard Alvarez]

Prices vary greatly depending on your location and emulsion. I've bought TriX for as little as ten dollars a roll, and in a pinch, paid as much as 20 dollars for a roll of ektachrome. (In a drug store, on the day of the shoot). Obviously, buying in bulk is better than one roll at a time. Processing runs anywhere from ten to fifteen dollars a roll. Again, some breaks may be had at some labs with bulk orders.

As a ballpark figure, you can estimate 25-30 dollars to purchase and process a single roll of super 8 film. (Reversal stock only.) So ten dollars a minute is a good rule of thumb for shooting.

[Joshua Starnes]

Joshua Starnes: Someone has misled you (most likely Pro8mm literature it would seem). Kodak recently unveiled both Vision2 200T and Vision2 500T in Super 8mm. Those are 2 of the most technically advanced stocks Kodak has. Not to mention the fact that Kodachrome 40 is a beautiful stock with very fine grain whose only real problem is its processing difficulty. -->>>

You're right. My information came directly from Pro8mm. I've never dealt with them - I had been planning on it, but that's not going to happen now. Is there anyone here who has dealt with them?

[Dave Croft]

I have recently got into shooting Super 8 on a Nizo 800 model (a fine camera I might add), which does 18/24/54 fps, and has a true frame by frame time lapse.

I've heard about Pro8mm poor customer service, but have never used them. Living in the UK, the famous Widescreen Centre in London has all the Kodak Super 8 stocks you need and loads of information. I think you can use them internationally, and they process the stocks as well. They also sell a DVD, that has transfered footage of all the different stocks including the new negative emulsions.

http://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/cine.html

If you want a cheap way to achieve a 'film look' shoot some super 8 and get it transfered to a Mini DV tape to edit on your NLE of choice. Some people say that using the negative stocks can get very close to 16mm in quality if shot and exposed correctly.

Dave.

[Les Dit]

Yes, you can get close to 16mm quality from the 60's. because the film has gotten so much better. I was thinking of adding 8mm functionality to my 35/16mm film scanner, because I think it would be a kick to do a digital intermediate on negative stock. I might still do it, but right now the equipment is very busy doing a few 35mm features.
-Les



<<<-- Originally posted by Dave Croft : I have recently got into shooting Super 8 on a Nizo 800 model (a fine camera I might add), which does 18/24/54 fps, and has a true frame by frame time lapse.

I've heard about Pro8mm poor customer service, but have never used them. Living in the UK, the famous Widescreen Centre in London has all the Kodak Super 8 stocks you need and loads of information. I think you can use them internationally, and they process the stocks as well. They also sell a DVD, that has transfered footage of all the different stocks including the new negative emulsions.

http://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/cine.html

If you want a cheap way to achieve a 'film look' shoot some super 8 and get it transfered to a Mini DV tape to edit on your NLE of choice. Some people say that using the negative stocks can get very close to 16mm in quality if shot and exposed correctly.

Dave. -->>>